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Nov. 3, 2023

Freedom Friday: How to UnLearn Anger With Only One Roll A Day

Freedom Friday: How to UnLearn Anger With Only One Roll A Day

Our guest, Paul Zolman, has an inspiring story about unlearning a life of anger and adopting the practice of love. Born into an anger-driven environment, Paul embarked on a transformative journey to break free from this cycle, and his reimagining of the Five Love Languages (originated by Dr. Gary Chapman) as a tool for doing so forms the crux of our fascinating conversation. 

This episode aims to expose you to the real essence of love and how to practice it daily. We journey through concepts of unconditional and fraternal affection and discuss the importance of expressing love without attachments. 

Our unlearning journey wraps up with a look at the spectrum of anger and its language, and how a genuine understanding of these can lead to more authentic choices. We also explore the role of generational traditions and the importance of self-reflection in unlearning these habits that may unconsciously influence our behavior. 

This episode is an invitation to evaluate your personal relationships and perhaps begin your own journey of unlearning to cultivate healthier connections. So, are you ready to roll the dice and join us in practicing love?

Transcript
Speaker 1:

Hey, hello everybody, and welcome once again to the unlearned podcast. I am your host, ruth Abigail aka Ra, and you have entered once again into Freedom Fridays, which is when me and a friend of mine come and share with you something we have unlearned recently and how it has made us just a little bit more free. As you can see, I have a friend with me. Sometimes I don't. Actually, it's been a while since I've had a friend with me. I have a new friend here, mr Paul Zolman. Welcome to the podcast, paul.

Speaker 2:

Hi Ra, Glad to be with you. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1:

Yes, sir, yes sir, we are very, very new friends, and so I'm excited to get to know a little bit more of your story. But I just I'm just going to, let's just jump in here. I want to know what you've been unlearning recently and why you are more free as a result.

Speaker 2:

Well, ra, I'm actually trying to unlearn some things that my parents passed down to me, which I think their parents passed down to them. It's a generational thing. It's not genetic, but it's generational. Our parents really passed down what they learned in their life and my parents really learned how to be angry, and it was just more of an angry household. I had a sister in law about 15 years ago that I was introducing a woman that I was interested in took her to their house. She pulled her aside immediately and said the only emotion that the Zolman family learned growing up was anger. At first I didn't know. I said uh-uh, then it made me mad Then she just so it just a point taken. You know, she absolutely you know. Obviously I became angry right away because they're saying that, especially to someone that I cared about. But it really was a turning point for me that I wanted to unlearn, that. I really wanted to learn what was, what was the opposite of that and I wanted to learn more about love. So I started reading the color code and then settled on the five love languages. Now I read the five love languages about four or five times and I really liked the principles. I didn't get it. I really didn't get the application. You mean, dr Chapman, that I'm supposed to guess what RA's love language is and catered to that, and then that we're going to be buddies. I'm a really bad guesser. That's not happening in my life already. That's why I'm coming to you, dr Chapman. So that didn't work for me. And then the second thing is that Dr Chapman had that survey in his book that if you take that survey then you can find out what I could find out what my love language is, what I like to receive. Well, hello RA, I'm GIFs. What do you have for me today? It's just a little bit awkward to try to advertise that. And what are you going to do with that information If I share it and then RA says well, I told you how to love me, why aren't you doing it? You get down to this unintended pity party. So that wasn't working for me either. So I actually contacted Dr Chapman and asked him if he was licensing those little icons for the love languages, because I had an idea. I remember as a child, even as dysfunctional as our family was, I remember as a child loving games and I thought, well, maybe I can make it a game. I didn't tell Dr Chapman that, but I asked him if he's licensed that. He had his attorney write me back saying no, they're not licensing those. And I was kind of grateful because they're really old, they're over 30 years old and it was just a little bit outdated. So what I decided to do is go to my attorney here in town a copyright attorney, an intellectual property attorney and ask him. He said that theory, like the love language theory, is not copyrightable, application is. So I was going to do a different application of it and that's what I did. So I created a die or a cube that I put the icons for the love languages. There you see a hand holding a gift, two hands touching that's touch. Two hands forming a heart and the conversation fly out from that heart. That is the words. Hand holding a platter, that's service.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Then a hand holding an hourglass for that. That's time. Okay, five love languages, six sides on the die. The sixth side is actually surprised me. So there's just two. Instructions are a you roll the die every day. That's the love language practice. Giving away all day that day. And that's really what I needed to unlearn anger. I needed a replacement behavior, and so, as I was stacking this anger up by stacking annoyances is what I was doing, by being annoyed and then being annoyed, annoyed, annoyed, annoyed At some point in time I'd flash, I'd have this anger burst out that that was the straw that broke the camel's back and that would be the burst of anger. Then I go back down and started all over again. There's a cyclic process that would just go over and over again, and I realized that what I was getting annoyed at, I finally was able to drill down to find out what it is that I needed to unlearn, and what it was was that I was looking over to the side in a different lane. Somebody else was doing something that annoyed me.

Speaker 1:

Right, right.

Speaker 2:

I just was being annoyed. I thought to myself well, I don't have any choices over there, I have zero control over what that person is choosing to do Right, and I have zero control to make it better. I can make suggestions, or I can offer suggestions if they give me permission to make a suggestion, I can make a suggestion. But I realized it's totally out of my lane. So I said why am I getting angry, why am I even bothered with that? Because it's out of my lane, out of my choice, my boundaries of choice. I realized that as I rolled the dive, instead of thinking what's wrong with those people, now I'm thinking what's right with that person, what can I love about that person? And it's really moved me 180 degrees in the opposite direction, having that replacement behavior.

Speaker 1:

So I got to say I tried the game. I actually did it today and mine was a service and it was funny. I thought it was really funny because that's probably the one I one of the ones I struggle with the most and I said, well, isn't that funny. The one that I probably would not have picked for myself to do is the one that I have. And I got to be honest with you, paul. There were a couple of times today that I had the opportunity to serve somebody and I didn't do it. I didn't do it because I didn't feel like doing it, but what it did was something that I realized consciously. I chose not to show love consciously because I had this application tool that I had at my disposal, that I used and then didn't follow through with. And the reason I share that is because I was able to do it, is because the what you were like you said, you know, dr Gary Chapman, the book has been out for a while. I've learned about these love languages, I'm sure over a decade ago. I use it, you know, in my language and just in the way that we kind of communicate about love, it's become kind of common, a common way of communicating about love, and so a lot of people know it, and love is a very, it's a very, it's a concept that we all believe in and desire deeply. I mean nobody I don't think anybody would say I don't want to be loved or I don't desire love. I don't think anyone would say that, or very, very few people might, right. So I think I say that to say this is not something we're unfamiliar with, but even in my example today, I realized that it's not always easy to do, and so we find ourselves talking about it and marinating over it, and and this is it's I think it's one of the things, one of the topics that is most talked about but at the same time, is done very little. You know, like, and I think that this, this tool for the first time I used it today opened my eyes to the reality of the, the, to the reality of the difficulty of applying something that feels like it should be fairly easy to do. Do you find that at all? And how you move, and like you know when you talk to other people.

Speaker 2:

Well, RA, I was gonna say, I know a really good podcaster that could help you unlearn how not to love.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, let me, let me. I'd love to meet him.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know what I think that you're gonna there's always gonna be that learning curve and learning curves are usually upward bound that it's gonna be a little little steep climb to get there. But as you practice this really practice it over a 30 day period you're gonna. It's gonna become a whole lot easier and it's just like learning any language really Any language if you've learned any foreign language. I learned Japanese 100 years ago and I haven't kept up with it, but I learned the whole language, that I was fluent in Japanese. But that learning curve for that first year I really didn't feel comfortable in all situations. I was starting to feel more comfortable, but took a full year for me to really understand the language so that I could carry on any type of conversation and if it was a little bit over my head, I could ask questions that would clarify and help me understand the whole conversation. So it took took takes time to practice. This Takes time to to really determine that I'm gonna love today, no matter what, and it's really an intent that you're looking for, ra. You're looking to make that intention, make it on purpose, make it just make your whole life a lot more purposeful by sending love out all day, every day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, you, you, when you were talking about the language and learning, learning Japanese, it also kind of triggered this other reality that a lot of times the best way to learn language is to immerse yourself in it, is to go and just be around it, right? And how important has community been in your, in your process of really unlearning anger and choosing love on a daily basis.

Speaker 2:

So as far as that's a great question, ra. As far as unlearning anger, it was really more of a stop being angry Cause I learned it. I learned it really well. I was very fluent in anger, in that language, in that culture. That culture has a vocabulary, that culture has its own set of humor. That culture has its own put downs, its own. Everything about that culture is an angry culture and it's. And to break out of that you've got a desire I want to learn love languages. I don't want this angry language anymore. You've got to learn this off humor. You've got to learn how not to put people down but to lift them up, and it's just a whole. It's a very different culture so you do need to be immersed a little bit, but it's not hard. People are all around you, everywhere, in every country. It doesn't matter what language you speak. They're all around you. So I was immersed in Japan. I did live in Japan for two years and was immersed. I had a crash course for a couple of months before I went over there, but I was immersed in it. It was so very easy to speak it because there are people all around that were also speaking Japanese. There are people all around you that are speaking love too and I think that's a very important point that you're making, ra2, is that when you learn a vocabulary word, you think that it's the first time you've ever heard it in your whole life, but you learn it and then what happens? Right that day or the next day, you start hearing it all over the place. And so that's the thing about love is that as you learn these languages of love and start practicing them, like you did today, you're going to see these service opportunities all day long. Whatever you're rolling, whatever you're choosing to practice that particular day, you're going to start seeing that more and more and your eyes are opening. That's the whole idea of this. Is it different than what Dr Gary Chapman? He said, that to cater to whatever love language the other person might have. This is absolutely different. I'm saying learn all five love languages so that you have more understanding, so that there's a whole lot better communication, not only with your significant others, but with everyone that you come in contact with.

Speaker 1:

So I'm glad you mentioned that, I think, as I was reading your book. So your book is called the Role of Love and it breaks down a lot of these principles. It's a great read and you're incredibly vulnerable in it and I love for you to share a little bit about where you've come from so that people can understand why you're so passionate about it but also why it's so important and, I think, why you spent so much time being very intentional about helping not just yourself but other people how to apply it, like it's not just conceptual, and so I like the distinction right or kind of taking the principles that Dr Gary Chapman has helped, and I think it's a great way to think about love, but then looking at it and saying, how do I use this on a daily basis? And one of the things that I really love that you said in your book, or the concept, is this idea of giving love away right, that it is not something given, it's not something that you have to receive in order to give it away. You can give love away in the way that other people need it, without feeling the need to have it given back, like that idea of brotherly love, unconditional love, that we learn, that we learn about Certainly that the Bible teaches about. If you're a part of the Christian faith, we know what that is right, and so can you talk a little bit about that idea of giving it away right? Again, these are not things that we haven't heard before, but I find it interesting that it's still difficult to do, like it's still hard to do, and so you got to keep. We have to keep unlearning that, and there are some things that even about ourselves that are important to unlearn in order for us to be able to give things away right. And so what is giving love away look like? What does that look like in your life?

Speaker 2:

You know what? That's a great question, ari, and I just want to something popped into my own mind that I've never said on the podcast before. I think that what you're talking about is people give love away with strings attached, and this idea, this whole role of love that we're talking about right now, is unlearn that cut the strings quit it. Stop giving love away with strings attached. That's a transaction. That's not love. We're not on. Let's make a deal. This is not a TV show, it's not a reality show. This is giving love away without any strings attached. Try doing that. It's hard If you're used to giving it away in hopes of it coming back. And that's kind of what Dr Chapman preaches a little bit that people will, or he talks about it. I don't know if that he preaches it, but he talks a lot about people will give their primary love language away in hopes that it'll come right back. That reciprocity is not what we're talking about here. Again, that's a transaction. That's not love. We're not talking about transactional love. We're talking about giving it away without any expectation of it coming back, but trusting the universe that there's universal laws out there that have been established long before we were ever established. The law of the harvest you plan to see it's going to grow. Karma is another way to say it. Or the law of attraction it's what you send out. It's going to come right back to you. Be careful, the boomerang you're sending out there. You send anger out. It comes right back and it might come back tenfold. You send love out. You have to let it distill a little bit and just let it ferment a little bit. You're going to make somebody's day by sending it out and they're going to turn around and go to their circle of influence and make their day as well. That's what you want to do. You want to spread that love. So it'll go from you to someone else, to someone else and pass it on. Very similar to the economy, very similar to currency, you pass it on, we buy because the farmer brought it to the market and everybody gets paid along the line. Everybody gets paid along the line. When you're sending out love, it's a payday. When you're making somebody's day, even though you don't even have to wait for it to come back, and it still will come back in some other way. But when you're making somebody's day and you watch them light up, you've discovered what their primary love language might be. No longer do you have to do awkwardness and say excuse me, ra, could we pause this relationship for just a minute while you take this survey, so I know how to love you. We don't have to do that anymore.

Speaker 1:

I think this is really interesting. I love what you said and I kind of think of it. You can give something away without strings when you have some version of confidence that it is going to come back. What you just laid out, as far as there's a reality, there are laws, universal laws, like you said, that you're going to reap what you sow. That is just the truth. We see that in all these different ways. We build societies based on these principles. We know they work, and so love and that seed of love that you sow will come back. And I also think that what you said is very key too it probably won't come back always from the, from the person that you sew it into you, and, and so I think that is like you said, that direct transaction Is not something we need to go in expecting, but knowing that Somebody who is constantly sewing love on some at some point right In some ways. And so I think one of the ways that could be helpful For people is don't, you know, kind of expect the, the return, to come from a, from a different place other than the place you've sewn it like. Don't necessarily think that it's coming from where you just sew the love, have an expectation that it's gonna come in a different way and and and that way you're not. You don't have a Disappointment that could come with. I did this for somebody, or I show love in this way, but Nothing's happening. And then you end up missing all the other ways around you that may have come your way. But because you're looking for it from that person and Now there there might be a bitterness that might ensue because it's not coming, you've missed all these other ways that love has shown up in your life and I think it's just, it's a great reminder for people to know you're not, you're not Sacrificing your own your own. You're not sacrificing yourself at the altar of someone else without there being a Return on love. Like you will get a return on love, it may not come from that person, often it doesn't and so I Love, I just I love the application of it. I really do, I think. I think it's a, I think it's a powerful thing. I love to, I Love to for people to hear a little bit about where you've come from. You go into detail in your book and and, and I again I appreciate the vulnerability of that. What, what, what are what? Can you share a story of, of kind of where, when, anger really what? What was the turning point that kind of shifted your world. When you like said I got an issue, I got to do some about it.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think I've had a few turning points along the way. Ra, thank you for that question. It's a. They're age 35. I realized I was blaming my father for all my social Awkwardness again. You know, when you it's like when someone, if you're in a swimming pool and somebody pees in the pool and Everybody scatters, yeah, they do not want to be around that angry person. So it even the family would scatter and and it's just repel people. So, just like that person being in the pool, it just repels people. That's the kind of person I was. But I wanted to change that a little bit and and I From a negative background, I kind of had a negative goal I said I don't want to be angry and that's. It really doesn't work that way. To double negatives in math, to two negative numbers multiplied together actually make a positive number, but it doesn't work for relationships and it's just very interesting that I Tried doing it that way. It didn't work and it just kept kept trying to figure out how do I break out of here, how do I get out of this culture and just learn a different culture? And you know, just came to. The lowest point probably was when I I actually did something that really, really hurt my feelings, really hurt my soul and and it, you know, I hurt, hurt my son. I slapped him and and I went, as I slapped him, I, he was three years old and he was just, he was Flailing like this with his arms and just, and my wife was holding him and we'd read the scriptures that's the biggest thing, we're reading scriptures. When I slapped him so you know the yin and yang right there that here we are trying to learn to be a better people and then I slapped them. So I felt so bad about that and we did it usually in the morning is when we read scriptures but I felt so bad about that that I called who I thought I should call to find if they had any help. And I and it was the Department of Family Services, dfs, and when I called them they weren't. They weren't there because I left early in the morning. I had a 40 minute commute to work and as. I'm calling as I'm going to work and I'm so I leave a message and all I get to work and then after a couple hours at work, my wife calls me and says you can't come home tonight. I said what she. She said that people from the Department of Family Services came to the house and they came in and examined the child and they went to the schools and they interviewed all the children and they have they have a testimony from all the kids and From from everybody. That I slapped my child was open hand a slap, but I just felt so bad. That's, that's a kind of help I got. So what happened is I was charged, charged with child abuse and then, so my family would not have to testify again and go through court, I feel guilty, I did it, you know I slapped the child and so if that's what they call child abuse, that's what I did. I did it and it's just. I felt so bad that I felt like I was being my dad all over again. Not it's severe or anything, but you make those commitments when you're 17 or 18 years old that I'm never gonna be a parent like my father or I'm never gonna be a parent like my mother and I'm just. You make those commitments and this. I felt like I broke those commitments that I may had made to myself. But so it's really down and out. When I get home, I or I didn't get home I went to a friend's house that night and before as Before I went to the friend's house, I stopped at police stations. They asked me to stop by and the police chief it was a very small town, 2,500 people he drove me around town and while he's driving me around town in his car he's reading me my rights and before I ever know it now he's taken me up. I'm getting fingerprinted and booked in and that didn't book into the jail. I actually was able to leave after that and go to my friend's house and spend the night, but it took, took a day or two for me to be able to get back into my home and to get back to Assemblance. I was sentenced to 18 months probation and a year of anger management and in that year of anger management I'm I'm here as a volunteer basically Into that system and everybody else's was caught. Yeah, one guy was caught holding his wife by with his hand like this, up again, holding the wife's neck and Her feet off the ground up against the wall until she passed out. He got caught Because of that right for domestic abuse. Another guy had beat, beat his girlfriend so badly she was in the hospital, he was there also. And so what would happen is that they, they, everybody goes around the room says what was hard for you this week, and you had to write everything down and everybody I it looked like to me Are a that they were trying to make you confess more and then stack more Charges, charges against you. Well, I wasn't doing anything else that and they were thinks oh, he's, he's lying, he's cheating, I mean just not doing that. And then then they started one one class I remember was several classes, but it was. They had a wheel of types of child abuse. It was kind of a just just Different types of child abuse or different types of abuse the child abuse, the sexual abuse, emotional abuse, financial abuse, pet abuse, 13 different types of abuse. And I realized that I had been trained by my parents in maybe six different areas of Abuse. Wow, and I didn't even know it. And so what? What that was yeah, information was good for for me was that I learned well, if that's abuse, well, what's the opposite of it? What would? What would be the opposite or the antinom of that description of abuse. And as I began to learn the spectrum, learned what's on this side of the spectrum and what's on over on this side of the spectrum, I began to realize that, oh, that's where I need to go, those are the qualities that I need to have, and I started setting goals. What's I found out? Where was that on the spectrum? Like my assistant law said, I was on the angry side of the spectrum. Once I found out, I realized I had three choices. I Could keep blaming someone else for my problems and never have to change. It's their problem. If it's their problem, why should I have to change? That's one choice. The second choice would become more angry, more abusive. Or the third choice would become more loving, and so I'm choosing to move toward love along the spectrum. But I didn't realize what the spectrum was until I went through this anger management class and Started understanding what are the opposites of this type of abuse. What would be say? Say, for example, let's take sarcasm. It's really kind of on the angry side of the spectrum, right, people think it's hilarious and it really kind of is funny at times. Yeah, it's usually a dig at someone and it's just, it's sarcasm. They're kidding, but it still hurts.

Speaker 1:

That's. I'm glad you brought that up. I'm glad you brought that up because I, I Definitely speak that language. I speak sarcasm. I've been told by my friends. I have one friend that was like I'm. She just straight up said you got to stop like you got to stop being so sarcastic and and I never, I never considered it and that that it was a part of the language of anger, really until this moment and I'm. But I'm glad you said I mean, I it is. There's something that's really interesting. I that was. Yeah, thanks for pointing that out.

Speaker 2:

So are you? What do you think the opposite of that might be? I'm not the interviewer, by the way, I'm just Trying to turn the table on it.

Speaker 1:

I'm sure you are, paul. No, the opposite, I think, is the word that's coming to me right now is encouraging or Affirming affirmation, right, as opposed to putting someone down, lifting them up.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, or I Look at the word. If you're a sarcastic person, what would be the different type of person? And you're more genuine, more authentic, that's good. Absolutely true blue type of person when you look at it in that, in that Context, and remember this context. Understanding the spectrum is a huge thing that people need to know. They have to have that self Actualization moment to make any change in that context. Do you want to be sarcastic now or do you want to be genuine? It's an easy choice. It really is an easy choice. I.

Speaker 1:

I, you help me, paul, you just helped me. You did I. I love that. I think that is, and I think you may have helped a lot of other people, because sarcasm is such a common tool that I did learn a while back that I that I certainly use to cover up insecurities. It is very, it's an, it's an insecure Response, right, and so you, you, it's hard to be authentic when you're not secure with yourself, and so you use that, use, you know being funny and or you know throwing this dig out there or whatever, to deflect from what it is that people, what you don't want people to see about you. But if you are Genuine, if you choose to be genuine, you're also choosing vulnerability, you're choosing to be transparent. So you're, you're choosing to put yourself in a position that is not defensive, right? I'm not choosing, I'm not using sarcasm as a defense. I'm choosing to level up with you and and and to Pursue a truly authentic moment here, right, a real moment, and and not cover it up with sarcasm that's gonna make people laugh but ultimately is is not going to it. It doesn't leave a good taste in people's mouths. That is really good, and I I don't consider myself to be an angry person like I don't I've that's actually not a trait that I feel like I have I've ever really identified with, but but that sarcasm is something I have been doing my entire life and so I think I need to reevaluate some things.

Speaker 2:

Most likely, you know it's, it's something, maybe that's just a little deeper that I would have thought yeah, and I think we learned, like I mentioned in the beginning, we learned things from our parents that are passed on and it's we don't know that they're wrong. It's like traditions that are passed on that are Untrue, false traditions that we just keep going on. We don't know why we do it. It's just, it's just there, it's not genetic but it's generational. And, yeah, it's just one of those things that really need to have have a Come to Jesus moment for ourselves and just really, you know, remember the Last Supper? Jesus at the Last Supper says one of you is going to betray me. And each one of the disciples, every one of them, said Lord is at I. And I think that as we ask that question of ourself, ra, we ask Lord is at I? And in a prayer, be prepared for the answer. I mean, you're gonna have that, you're gonna have that answer. But remember that this is the God of love and he'll, he'll give you just a little bit. Well, why don't try working on this? Try working on this just a little bit? And what about this? And he'll make kind Suggestions at what you could do to be better in that regard. And it's just little by little, line upon line. That's how he teaches. That's how we should and that's how we learn. That's how we're going to learn. That's how we're gonna change the behavior to and and Unlearned things that we don't want to have in our, in our lifestyle.

Speaker 1:

That's it, paul. Okay, I got one last question before, and then I want you to tell people how they can find, find these resources. What did you roll today and how have you applied it?

Speaker 2:

Good question. All right, thank you very much. So I rolled the gifts today and what I do gifts in a lot of different ways and I think that gifts is one of those love languages that kind of over there's kind of an umbrella over a lot of other love languages. So I gave the gift of service, I helped someone move today and then I obviously gave compliments to that person. I gave that person a gift of a hug because I wasn't gonna see that person again. So I did the physical touch, I did the service and those all became gifts that I gave today. In addition to that, I was doing some work for the packaging that I do for the dice and as I was doing that, I was helping people understand how good they were at what they were doing, because those people are really people, that people that have a thankless job sometimes just need a thank you. That's all they need and that really lifts them up. I talked to a postman today as I'm mailing one of these packages out and asked, asked him. He looked like he was ready to retire. I said you look like you've been doing this job a while, like you know what you're doing. How long are you gonna continue to do this? He says I'm looking to retire in December. And it was just something to open up, to have a conversation, a kind conversation, something thoughtful. That would be a gift to them that somebody noticed what a good job they were doing, notice how long they've been doing that job, just anything like that. Any of the love languages fall under that umbrella of gifts. It wasn't anything I bought for anybody today, but it's just kind words, kind acts of service, a hug that I gave a person and then just watch it, continue to watching for those opportunities to send love out in all those ways. That would be a gift for someone else.

Speaker 1:

That's beautiful, Paul. I mean that is truly beautiful. I think the best gifts, honestly, are the ones you can you give that's done, cost anything. Right, those are the best ones. All right, so can you tell us where we can find the game and the book?

Speaker 2:

So you can find it all actually on my website rolloflovecom. R-o-l-e of lovecom, remember, we're trying to change ourselves within. That's why I use R-O-L-E, because actually I live two hours north of Las Vegas and they have a lot of dice in Las Vegas and they R-O-L-L. They roll it outside of you. We're not interested and you do roll the die outside of you, but we're not interested in things, circumstances, outside. We're changing within by doing this, and so R-O-L-E of lovecom is where they can find that, and it's actually there's a special lawn right now that I'll have on for a few more months. That's $29.99 for the bundle. You get a journal, you get the book and you get the die for $29.99. It's a whole lot less than any therapy session I've ever heard of and it's gonna last you a lot longer.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that is great. So rolloflovecom R-O-L-E of lovecom Check out the bundle. Y'all go ahead and get it before, and it sounds like it could be a pretty cool Christmas gift for people and it's coming up that time, so y'all go to the website check it out. Paul, this has been a great conversation. I appreciate you being honest and sharing your story for people being vulnerable, to let people know, hey, you can shift, you can choose something different and then go in a step further and then creating resources to help people do that. So thank you for doing it. Thank you for coming on the Unlearned Podcast. This has been really fun.

Speaker 2:

All right, it's been such a pleasure to be with you and try to unlearn not loving and learn loving. I will do it. Okay, good for you. I will do it, paul.

Speaker 1:

All right, y'all. So this has been another edition of Freedom Friday. Let's keep unlearning together so that we can experience more freedom, and we will see y'all next week. Peace. ["unlearned Love"]. Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast. We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode. Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think. We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom. See you then. ["unlearned Love"].