Freedom Friday: If You Grow in Up America, You Will Probably Need Therapy

Hello everybody and welcome once again to the unlearned podcast. I am your host, ruth Abigail, aka RA, and this is Freedom Friday, where me, or me and a friend of mine come and share something we've unlearned recently and how it has made us just a little bit more free. And today I have a really, really interesting, inspiring woman to be our guest today. It is a new friend of mine we have recently met and connected. Her name is Phyllis and you're going to have to forgive me, levitt.

Exactly, I got it, I got it.

I got it. I got it. This, Phyllis Levitt. Welcome to the podcast.

Well, thank you so much for having me here today. Absolutely, I really appreciate it.

Man, I was just. I was just sharing with you that I was looking at my notes that we took when we first had our conversation. I have the most pages than I've had with anyone and it really is your area of expertise what you're really leaning into right now. I think it's really interesting and really apropos. So would you just kind of share a little bit about what you've been working on and what your background is in what that's been about?

For sure. Well, I have been a psychotherapist for well over 30 years and my experience, and also as a client myself, I've done lots of therapy myself and what I learned you know just an enormous amount working with people, a wide variety of people. But some of the things I learned were sort of commonalities for everybody. And one of the big things that I learned is that our early conditioning, our family systems that we live in, our family of origin, our, you know, very close community of friends and maybe church or school or business, and our larger communities like our state or our federal, you know, our nation and really the globe, but they're all family systems and they operate on either healthy family dynamics or unhealthy family dynamics. And I began to see, I worked with so many people who have some kind of abuse or neglect in their childhood, which I think is actually rampant in our country today. Many people look good, they're functioning, they look like they're functioning okay. Their kids, you know, they get their kids to school, they go to work, but there's a lot of pain inside from emotional neglect or emotional abuse or sexual abuse or physical violence or violence in the community or discrimination or poverty or addiction. I mean, the list goes on and on of what people are suffering from and often have no way to break that cycle. And that's actually what brings people to therapy is some kind of pain, something isn't working, some cycle that they're repeating. They don't know how to get out of that rut. And what I saw is that a lot of what goes on in America as a country is some of the are some of the dynamics that we see in abusive and neglectful families targeting certain populations. When people are targeted, when they're, when they're hurt, abused, neglected, ostracized, looked down on, they become symptomatic. In an abusive family, when someone becomes symptomatic, then they get blamed for their symptoms. Yeah, you know, and we do a lot of that in America, and there's a lot of dynamics that I began to see, that a lot of unhealthy family dynamics are playing out in our country with huge impact on masses of people, and I felt like I had to talk about that. I felt like because that is actually part of the family that we all live in. We all live in the family of America. Whether I myself am living in poverty or discriminated against, I'm still affected by what goes on in the whole family, and some people are affected much more deeply than others, and I'm an advocate for healing families. I'm an advocate for healing relationship, and part of I'll say this real quick and then please jump in part of the dynamic in an abusive family is that people are pitted against each other, and that's how certain people remain in power, and so that's what's happening in our country, and the whole thrust of good psychotherapy and good psychology is to help people work out their differences and bring them back together into healthy, loving, connected, cooperative relationship, because that's actually what we all really want. We all want love, we all want belonging, we all want to feel valued, we all want people to cooperate with us, and I think what we all really want and this doesn't I don't ever hear this get addressed on a national level I think what we all really want is peace. We don't want violence. Nobody wants violence in their own life, yet we tolerate it in our larger institutions and we even condone it, so that disconnect is a mental health issue. I see it as a mental health issue.

Right, right, that is so let me. This is what has really fascinated me about your work is that you took. You took what a lot of us see as a micro issue and as made macro, and I use those words Exactly. I think I never, because you're you have a book coming out. Uh, american Therapy, is that? That's? That's the name of the book. And that title by itself is like it's so captivating. I mean, when I first saw it I was like man, that is a captivating title. You don't think about a country needing therapy, you don't? You just don't consider those two things to connect Right and so right, and I, I really, um, I love the idea of taking something because you know the last specifically around, you know, uh, uh, with the pandemic, you know a lot of people who maybe were a less prone to want to participate in therapy. I think a lot, a lot of us were like you know what? I think I, I think I see the need Right, and we have been talking about it as a society for several years has become a lot less Um, uh, of a, of a, of a point of shame for a lot of people. You know, uh, mental health is, is out there and we're talking about it, which is great, right, and it is so deeply in the issues, are so deeply embedded. I don't think we often realize that on a macro level.

If it's so deep individually you have all these individuals experiencing these deep traumas, these issues, these things that they can't seem to unwind then of course it would impact Right, the Exactly Right, and we just don't think about it like that, and part of the macro, micro um connection is that what's going on in individual people's lives and families and the and the microcosm of their small communities directly impacts how they participate in the country, and the laws and the policies and the role models of people in power, which are all over the news and all over social media, also affect from the top down. You know, if you, if you hear politicians calling each other names and putting each other down or stomping out when they're talking, these are the role models our children are seeing for how you deal with conflict. And of course, it's not just the children, it's adults, and there's a lot of copycat going on. This, oh this is what you do. You get to put people down, you get to call them names, you get to feel powerful by ostracizing somebody and making yourself the top dog. These are all highly dysfunctional family dynamics.

Yeah, they don't work and they, they don't. They don't work and, and to your point, they are things that when they happen in our close circle, we we reject. That's not something we want Exactly, but, for whatever reason, when it happens in this larger context, we almost celebrate it to some degree, especially if we're the ones that are in power, and I think you know what I mean. Like, and I think that's that's such an interesting so. So we're, obviously we're in the middle of the primaries and this you know, politics is, I think, probably a very good place to see this stuff play out in our political climate, especially in the last eight years or so, and I'm curious as to what, what you have been. So I'm curious as to what you have been unlearning and really processing this, and particularly even even in these high political seasons, because the things that you're naming we're seeing on a much larger scale regularly during these political political seasons, right Like what? What have you been unlearning about America in your eyes? That that has, that has impacted you?

Well, and you tell me if this is an answer to your question, but I'll say a little bit about what I've sort of been unlearning about myself in relationship to all of this. So you know what I grew up in? Kind of an emotional climate in my family where nobody talked about feelings and and you just couldn't they might. My parents did not have that capacity, and so I grew up feeling like I really didn't have a voice and didn't want to like I was afraid to have a voice and really say how I felt or if I wanted or needed something that seemed divergent from what was being offered. And it took me many years and probably that was what some of not probably that was some of what some of my therapy was about to start to have a voice. And being a therapist was a wonderful way to have a voice, because I did a lot of therapy myself. I felt like I came through my darkest times and I felt like I wanted to give back. And being a therapist and because therapy had helped me so much, being a therapist was a wonderful way to give back and have that voice. And then I, when I sort of had the insights that I shared with you earlier about our country, I realized that I needed to have a bigger voice. I felt called to have a bigger voice and that was really confronting for me. It was scary. It's scary to have a voice that sort of goes against a lot of the tide of what's happening Certainly not everybody, and there's lots of people who really resonate with what I'm saying, but there's a lot of people in positions of power who don't, and I'm sure I'll come up against more of that. So it was a really big deal for me to sort of unlearn being safe in my office if that makes sense, like that was a safe zone. People who came to see me wanted to hear what I had to say, right.

And now I don't know.

I don't know what will happen. I expect there'll be blowback from most of the people that I talk to now are who invite me to talk, are interested in this, but there's a lot of people out there that what I have to say would actually be threatening to, and understandably so, because if you get your power from dominating other people and making them less than and that's not a healthy dynamic psychologically and it also causes a lot of suffering, and somebody says what you're doing is causing a lot of suffering and it's unhealthy, you know, and you're invested in that kind of power. You're not going to like it and I get that, you know. I get that. I see in individual families, I see it in my own life. You know it's hard for any of us to change. We all think we're right, right, we all think we're right, we want the other guy to change.

No, that's no, we don't think. I know I'm right, Phyllis, I know I'm right.

Well, I know you are too.

No, but you're so right, like it is, whenever there is a, especially when it's been ingrained in you for so long right, and we have obviously certain populations in our country where privilege and power has been the expectation.

The goal.

It's the goal, and for some, there hasn't been anything that they've ever known differently, right.

That's right, that's right.

You know to your point that change mechanism is like what do I need to change for? Like you know, this is just who I am, it's what I do, it's what I know, and I think that and I love, I love that you are stepping into a position to challenge a lot of people that are going to struggle to change or even understand why it's necessary to change whether they do it or not, Right.

Well and and when? When you have that much privilege and power, it depends on other people not having it. And that's the paradigm that we're living in. We're living in a win-lose paradigm. Somebody has to win and if somebody has to win, somebody and it's a lot of somebodies have to lose and it's more and more somebodies that have to lose as the power differential grows. And that kind of power differential we know in the field of psychology and any kind of family dynamic is unhealthy and it hurts people and it causes massive suffering. And when people are suffering they become symptomatic and sometimes their symptoms are self harm or addiction or failure to thrive, or they can't keep a job or their mean to their children or their spouse, and sometimes they really act out their rage and then we blame them rather than saying what happened to this person that they're so filled with rage or that they're totally isolated and they don't come out of the room and they're playing video games 12 hours a day. What happened in the family, their family or the family of America and at this point I think there's somewhat merged. It's a huge family system that we have to look at. What happened? That's what psychotherapies all about. We get to the root of what caused the pain, and then we try to change that.

Yeah, so what? Because that can be hard though, phyllis. I mean, let's be honest, it can be hard to want to care what happened to people who have exercised things that are going to hurt other people and it's like, okay, I understand that these are symptoms of a greater problem, but you're out here causing pain and so what kind of for you? Have you always been wired to ask that question of people who, maybe also who, who, because of pain, cause pain? Right, has that been something that you have been naturally wired to do? Have you learned how to ask that question and kind of stand in the gap, maybe for others who don't have the strength to care, because they're the ones that are being hurt?

Right? No, I would not, naturally wired and I don't know how many people really are. I think you have to be exposed to that idea and I think it was from becoming a therapist and working with so many people that I really learned that and I really saw that. And one of the one of the really good examples of that is I did a lot in the beginning of my practice. I worked a lot with children and the children came for fears for wedding the bed when they were past bed wedding age, for being aggressive towards siblings or other children, for failing in school when they had plenty of mental capacity for having obsessions or whatever they had. And invariably I would say 97% or 99% of the kids that I saw were suffering from conflict between their parents and very often they were suffering from a conflictual divorce and they were caught in the middle of, you know, ongoing battle between their parents and they were the symptom bearer. The parents didn't come for therapy, they brought their child because their child had a flagrant symptom and once I really began to realize that I mean really almost all the kids I saw were suffering from parental discord Really and sometimes being caught like in a custody battle and that kind of thing. Once I realized that, I felt like the work's not. There's nothing wrong with this child. They're having a normal response to an abnormal situation. The work was with the parents, who are fighting and not resolving it and probably not even understanding that their unresolved issues are directly affecting their child. And that's what's happening in America, all over the place. So, yes, if you have a child that's beating up another child, you have to stop them. Of course that's it's. It might be an understandable symptom of the pain they're suffering, but it's not an acceptable way to do it. So so we have to help that child with the emotional part and stop the behaviors that are destructive. But it comes it still comes from a place of love. It's not like you're a bad kid. What's wrong with you? It's you're hurting cause your mom and dad are fighting and you're scared. That you know. You're scared of the fights. You're scared, you know that maybe one of them's gonna leave or one of them's left and you can't hit your brother. Yeah, right, and you cannot hit your brother. So you know, obviously in our society it's much bigger than that. We have people that have grown up in drug addicted homes and they've had no access to good education or healthcare or they live in poverty and discrimination and they're symptomatic and some of them are violent and maybe they have to be restrained. But maybe many of them could be treated for the abuse that they've sustained and become whole, functioning citizens in our country. And whether we have to, we feel like we don't know how to treat them and they need to be incarcerated. Or they've murdered somebody or not, or not. They still deserve to have their pain be addressed because it's the only way we're gonna stop the cycle of abuse. If people don't get help and they don't get empathy for the pain they've suffered, even if there has to be consequences or restraint or whatever, because many people go back out from jail, for instance, into society oh yeah, who are they? Did they get any help for what happened to them? You know over half of the population in the United States that's in jail today have untreated child abuse.

What do you do with?

that you know? Yeah, you can't.

Yeah, that's, yeah. It's interesting and I'm gonna share this about Memphis and I wanna make sure that I say it right in a succinct way. But Memphis has and unfortunately, and around the world in some ways, is known around the country at least, is known as a place of high crime and high poverty, which is both true. We recently had an election that where we had a shift in the DA position and our former DA was, I'll say, a lot more punitive, based in her approach, and our current DA is less of that right in his approach, and it was interesting because a lot of people were excited about that. Like we need people need to get help, we need to focus on restorative justice. We need to stop putting young people, driving so many young people to adult court, because in Memphis, shelby County, it's astronomically more than anywhere else in the state, right. And so that's a lot of what the conversations were around. Here's what's interesting he wins on a lot of those points because those values were similar to him. Now, the crime rate particularly stolen cars, a lot of that and a lot of things that Memphians are tired of the crime rates have gone higher. There's a lot more crime and a lot of people are saying you gotta be tougher, you gotta be tougher. But it's interesting because the election would have said at the time we need to help people. But now, when it feels like we are, it feels like in some ways, for some people it feels like things have gotten worse or things haven't gotten any better. Now we wanna go back to the old way. Can you talk a little bit about what you've unlearned about the timing of change when it comes to shifting the way we operate as a society and what that expectation needs to be right, when we wanna go from a, when we wanna go from a society that continues to hurt people to helping to heal people who have been hurt. How, what does timing look like and what have you unlearned about that?

Well, what I would say and you tell me what you think about this is that great that you had a DA that had a more healing approach to crime. Great I still agree with that, regardless of whether the crime rate went up or not. But I think it speaks to that. There's a lot more to unlearn, and which is that just having a DA that is more compassionate toward people isn't enough. You have to change the family dynamic, and I mean the community family dynamic, the city family dynamic, the national family dynamic that is impacting people. So, if people are still in poverty and there's children, if they're still in poverty, if they're still walking out their door and somebody fires at them because they're black or they're Native American or they're gay or they're whatever, we haven't done enough to heal the family of America. And these are the families that people are living in and our society is more and more, actually, I think, a determinant of how people feel about themselves and what opportunities they feel like are even available to them. Does that make sense? So it needs to be addressed. We have to unlearn a whole lot of what we're doing and to just have the default position to say there's just too many bad people out there, lock them up and throw away. The key is not learning anything. It's not learning anything, and I'll say this, and I've said this many times because one of the things that I've learned as a psychotherapist dealing with so many people and so much abuse and so much neglect and so much just raw pain that people carry around and they could be people who have money in the bank it cuts across, I think, all socioeconomic lines. One of the things that I've learned is that what we all need every single person needs love. They need to feel safe, they need to feel like they're valuable, they need to feel like they're equal, they need to feel included, they need to belong, they need to know that if there's conflict, it's not no one's going to resort to violence to settle it, and that I call that the best food for human beings. And if we're not providing that, or even trying to provide that for our communities, then we're not feeding people good food. We're feeding them toxic food. And if we look at them like, yeah, you're just a loser, go to jail and stay there, then we've fed them. And what have we done to their children?

Yeah, oh, put them in the same cycle. I mean, I see it all the time. It's, unfortunately, almost inevitable that those same things just continue to perpetuate. So what do you think that people need to unlearn about America as a country?

I'll say a big picture thing, because I feel like this maybe puts a lot of things in context. We have no problem investing billions of dollars in weapons, billions of dollars in technologies, billions of dollars in computers and AI and whatever billions of dollars everywhere except in mental health, in healing human relations, and that's what we have to. I think what we have to unlearn and using that concept I don't know if it fits, but you tell me is we're looking in the wrong place to solve our problems. If we addressed mental health and that means really looking at the dynamics in the family of America, is everybody treated equally? Do people have access to opportunity? Do they have access to medical care? Do they have access to good education? Do they have access to decent housing and decent food? And if we're not helping people have that and there's people out there and you know this, it's all over the news there's people working two and three jobs who still don't have those things there's something wrong in the family structure of America and if we don't get that, that's really the problem and it's our mental health that keeps that going. If we're not investing in how to have people feel wanted and included and safe and provided for then we're gonna have more of the same.

Yeah.

We're gonna have more of the same, and we have to stop blaming people. We have to start helping them?

Yeah, we do, but I want not. But, and I wonder we were talking about it earlier when you were saying how the power for powerful people to stay in power it means that other people can't have it. And what does shared power look like? You know?

what I mean.

What does it look like?

I totally do. I totally do, and it's not easy. Let me tell you, none of what I'm talking about is easy, and that's one of the reasons why it's so hard to make it happen. But part of the reason why it doesn't happen is because there's too much resistance to for people that would really need to change their whole attitude and outlook and what they have in life. But what shared power looks like. It doesn't mean that a parent and a child are equal in terms of when the kid goes to bed, right. It doesn't mean that. It doesn't mean that your boss can't tell you this is what I expect you to do for your job. Of course, we're always gonna have certain amount of hierarchy in our social structure, because it's just how things operate. I don't know that that will ever change, but our attitude toward it can change. I can be your boss. I can be your boss and I can say you know your job is to file these papers, or go out and talk to these clients, or you need to work this many hours a week, or that's your route to drive, or whatever I say because I'm hiring you for that job. But I can still treat you with respect. I can still look at you as equal to me in value as a human being. So I don't just ignore you because you're my underling or I don't. And I mean I've worked with so many people who were suffering from workplace issues and came to therapy from being horribly treated by the people above them. You know, passed over for promotions even when they were doing good work. People got who were acted out on because they were gay. You know, whatever it was, we can still treat people as if they have equal, as having equal value. And it changes the whole work environment. It changes the school environment, it changes, you know, a church environment. It changes a town.

I think what's interesting. You talk about equal value. It's. I think that's hard when I don't know that you know we talk about shared values, right. I don't know that you can, I don't know that you can see people as have an idea of equal value if we don't believe that certain things are valuable. And I think you know in America and you mentioned this in one of the conversations we had previously about greed, right, and how the greed is at the center and core of our country and when the value for most people is money, how do you then see someone that's valuable, that doesn't have money, like when that is, or status is, in your eyes, what's valuable for?

someone who doesn't. Well, I think we've been taught. I think we've been taught and that success is the sign of a higher value in a person. And then we have all these people in our society who have no access to opportunity. So they're blamed for their symptom, you know. But if I can, I just wanna say, I just wanna zoom out to the big picture for a moment. Yeah, how do you change somebody's mind if they really believe that if somebody's really impoverished and they live in a slum and they, you know they don't have work, or they have a, you know, work that pays $7 an hour or whatever, that they're deficient in motivation, or they expect a handout from the government or whatever we do to people, you know, that are impoverished, I don't know how you change someone's mind, you know. I mean, obviously we can tell stories, we can. You know, people share their truth and there's a lot of that going on. There's beautiful, there's a lot of beauty going out there, as much as there's a lot of darkness. There's a lot of incredible sharing on a very deep level that really ignites compassion. I just, I'll just go to put a little plug in for this. We just watched this series on I think it's on Apple TV and it was an Oprah series called the Me you Can't See and it's all about mental health and it's really moving. I mean really, really moving, and there's famous people talking on it and there's people you haven't heard of talking on it, and there's an interview with a little boy who was a refugee in Syria, who was from Syria, and so there's a lot of exposure about what trauma does to people and how heartfelt we can. You know, hopefully, that it ignites some people to have more compassion. But what I wanted to say in the big picture is this, and I hope we get this before it's too late what brings people to therapy? Pain. Something isn't working and it's painful enough that they're willing to be vulnerable and try to get help from another person. Right, and we have an enormous amount of pain that we are inflicting on people and suffering. My hope is, you know, and I don't know, what it's gonna take to actually shift our more collective consciousness. I don't know what it'll take, but I think it takes all of us having a voice, my voice, your voice and thousands of other voices of people who have a clue about cause and effect. When is it gonna be enough pain. When are we gonna have enough mass murders of totally innocent people and children to say something has to change, because it could be you, it could be me, it could be my grandchildren, it could be anybody. And when do we say, like, what is happening in our society, that we are producing masses of mass murders, for instance, just to take that? Or what is it gonna take for us to say, to look at what's going on in Gaza, for instance, and say, when are we gonna start advocating for peace and to stop killing people, Because maybe we feel safer if it's halfway across the world? But my hope was that 9-11 could have taught us it isn't halfway across the world, it can be anywhere, right?

that's right.

So it's sort of like waking up, like let's wake up out of our trance of like we can go on like this. We can't go on like this. A third world war would destroy life as we know it. Is that not a wake up call that war is not the answer? It's not the answer.

No, and that I love that question. I mean, how much more pain. I think that's such a it's such a heavy, weighty question, right? How much more is it going to take for us to decide right, as a community, for the majority? Of the community to decide, and I actually believe that the majority of the community believes that. But the voices you hear is not from the majority. You know you hear from you know, it's the age old, silent minority right, and you have the extremes on the microphones and it makes us think that there are more people that don't think like us than do, and I actually think that most of us think about what we're saying. It's like no, no, no. This is where we are. Unfortunately, that's not the voices. And so your voice and you stepping out into this space as a, as someone who is saying OK, coming out of your office and saying, hey, look, we have to, we got to wake up. I think that's beautiful. So your book is, when is it coming out?

It will be live in July of this year, but it's also available. You can order it now. It's on Barnes, noble and Amazon and a bunch of different booksellers that online you can definitely can get it now. You can order it now, please. You know, love to have people visit my website. It's all about my book. You can contact me if you have questions or you just want to talk about some of these issues. I'm available. I love to talk about this because I feel like the more of us that we share with, the better, because ultimately and hopefully we'll still have a vote that counts Ultimately. The more people are informed and they get that there's some really big things that need to shift here, then hopefully we'll make different choices of who we empower.

Man, I hope so too. I really hope so too. So, tell, tell, tell us to. Just to close out with two things how have you been more free as a result of this journey? And then, what is the freedom that you hope for other people?

Yeah, yeah. I mean I'll go back to what I started with, which was having a voice. Like you know, when I first wrote the book, I never imagined I would be doing podcasts or anything public. My, my only vision was I'll write the book, it'll get out there and somehow Oprah will find it and you know, and it'll just have a life of its own right, and and, and I so I never imagined it would call me to really have to confront the introverted part of myself, the part that, you know, doesn't want to be too public, don't want to be too seen, don't want to ruffle too many feathers. You know, just like, have my little voice over here and hopefully somebody else takes it off. And so I had to wake up from that and realize that if I really want to promote my book and if I want to promote my ideas, just writing it isn't enough. I have to talk about it. So it's really been, and it's been a huge freedom. I've actually really enjoyed doing it. You know I'm passionate about what I have to say. I still feel nervous every time I do a podcast or I do, but once I'm talking I'm like, oh my God, this is what I love to talk about and this is what I want to share. So that that's probably the biggest unlearning. And then the other one, that's just a little bit more. You know, behind closed doors is like you got to practice what you preach and it's harder. It's hard to practice what I'm preaching so it makes me look at my own life, my relationship with my husband. How am I being? Am I as responsible for myself as I'm asking others to be and our country to be, Because really we have to embody what it is the changes that we want to see. So that's been huge for me and good, really good.

Wow, that's good, phyllis, that's true. I mean, that's when you start talking about it. You got to walk it, you got to walk it. And that is powerful man. Thank you so much for coming.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for having me and for such a wonderful conversation.

Oh man, this was. We could have talked for another two hours, but you know.

I know.

Oh man, I love it. So we your website. What is your website? Can you share it? So?

my yeah, my website is my name, it's wwwphyllislevittcom. And please you know anyone visit my website, sign up for my newsletter. I'm about to. I'm not sure exactly when it's going to come out, but I think within the next couple of weeks, hopefully, I'm going to have a free PDF available on my website and it's called the six secrets of how to repair relationship, and and that I really want to give that away. It's part of what's in my book, but it's also something that I I sort of condensed down into its application into our own personal lives. So if you sign in in a few weeks, you'll you'll get that, and or even if you sign in now, you'll still get it. And, and I want to have more offerings like that of how we can all participate in this, how we can build some of this into our own lives and experience, you know, more freedom, more love, more safety, more connection in our own relationships.

Man, that's good. That's good, all right.

So we will make sure to put that, put all that information out so that people can see it, and I'm excited for your book to come out and excited about the work you're doing Well thank you, thank you, and just to throw that in I forgot to say, you know I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook and Instagram and I have lots of talks on YouTube and stuff like that, but but yeah, I really appreciate you having me as a guest. I love sharing this and I love you know that. We're so in alignment and and I, you know, I feel like, as you said, I feel like people are just like. I feel like people are hungry to have something different happen here.

I agree.

I agree.

Man. Thank you, phyllis and thank everybody. Thank you for listening Once again. The Freedom Friday. Let's keep unlearning together so we can experience more freedom, and we will see y'all next week. All right Peace. Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned podcast. We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode. Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think. We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom. See you then.