Talks With Middle Adults: Overcoming Fear and Embracing Vulnerability in Leadership

Transcript

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hello, hello, hello everybody, and welcome once again to the unlearned podcast.

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I am your host, ruth abigail aka ra and hello friends, it's jaquita, your fave, how y'all doing ah, yes, yes, yes, and we are the podcast that is helping you change.

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Gain the courage to change your mind so that you can experience more freedom.

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And this is your favorite, your new, your favorite, newest segment Talks with Middle Adults Talks with Middle Adults.

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man Talks with Middle Adults.

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Talks with Middle Adults, where we basically talk about things we've had to unlearn from our 20s up until about right now and uh, and just try to shed a little light you know, just unlearned this thing yesterday.

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I got it fresh off the fresh off the press for you.

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Fresh off the press fresh, fresh off the press lesson I think we do, actually, because we were just talking before we hit record and I just think we should get right into it, because I think this particular uh uh conversation I mean it's very fresh, like I was just saying about a conversation that I had yesterday, um, and around around this, and you, you said it a couple of days ago.

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So, man, you know, uh, we want to talk about fears when it comes to, uh, new leaders, right so, lord.

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So let me give you a statistic, right, um, uh, so, let me get there.

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Let me get there, all right.

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So more than 77 percent of organizations report that leadership is lacking.

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All right, and lacking is strong that's right.

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It's lacking right that's strong and while that is a big number, it shouldn't come as it should not come as a surprise, because 10,000 baby boomers retire every day.

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All right, yeah it's crazy at the same time, 83 percent of businesses say it's important to develop leaders at all levels, but less than 5% of companies have implemented leadership development at all levels.

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Sounds about right.

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Sounds about right.

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It is, it's true right Like we don't.

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we don't need to be developed, we have no programs.

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Yeah, we don't develop, we don't consciously intentionally develop.

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I have no programs.

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Yeah, we don't develop, we don't, we don't consciously intentionally develop.

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I think young leaders well, we might do it through a more unconventional or informal means but you can't, you can't scale that and we obviously have to scale it because we are.

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We have this huge leadership vacuum, and so what?

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What I've seen and what I've experienced is that when you are underdeveloped as a leader, your fears begin to drive how you lead right.

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Absolutely, you lead out of fear.

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And so I think this is a very relevant conversation for young leaders, of which we have been and still are.

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I mean, we are young leaders, but we're more.

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We're experienced young leaders, but we're still young.

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And I think it's just this reality of like yo, we got a lot of responsibility, a lot of responsibility for a 30 something year old, right, and it can be scary sometimes, and I there are.

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There are definitely ways that I have felt developed, and then there are ways I felt underdeveloped to do what I'm doing, and my, my, my fears have absolutely, absolutely driven some of my leadership decisions which have been very detrimental in some, in some ways which I'm happy to share some of that.

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So what about you?

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What do you land?

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there.

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It's been really interesting in the role that I'm in now, stepping fully into middle management and as a middle adult, middle management should come easily.

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But middle management is the hardest one.

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I mean, you know it is the fear of dropping someone's expectation.

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You know you have the expectations of the people that you lead and supervise and the expectations of the people who are kind of overseeing your work as a middle manager.

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Okay, and it gets.

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It can be really paralyzing at times because you're so focused on am I doing the right thing?

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Am I making the right move?

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You know, and that is like on a day-to-day basis.

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You know, did I say the right thing in that one-on-one conversation with one of my assistant directors?

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Did I say the right thing in that staff meeting?

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You know, am I leading my team in the right way that's going to be most effective and that's going to like make a big splash?

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You know, because where I work we want to be the best Like.

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We are always promoting like number one, this number one that got to be the best Like.

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And you know it is a lot of pressure to perform and leadership is not always performance.

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You know it's not always performance based.

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A lot of times, leadership is, leadership is development.

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Leadership is, you know, taking a step back and molding and shaping something in ways that other people may not see and or appreciate.

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But sometimes the quiet things we do in leadership are not as recognized as kind of some of the bigger, louder things that we do, and so it's a fear, it's the fear of the public stuff for me.

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You know I feel like I got a good handle on like what I do privately with my team, but it's what gets seen publicly.

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That kind of stresses me out.

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That's really you know.

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It's really interesting.

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I feel like I might be the opposite.

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Really.

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Yeah, public, I think, because at my core I'm a performer.

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I'm very good at doing that, like I'm good at when I'm.

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When I got to be in front of a crowd whatever that might be like I can put it on and I can do my thing behind.

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I've, I've I've led teams in the last shoot four years right.

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I've led teams where we have been impressive on the outside and crumbling on the inside you know what I mean?

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yeah, and I think that has.

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That is, that experience has shaped, um, my, the like, the fears I I have are really around, like a lot of them are within the, within the four walls of of our space, where we operate, where nobody sees us.

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You know cause we all are, we all are.

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So you know, we, we wanted to, we wanted to look our best, be our best, do our best out there, and um, and we did.

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I mean, we were really good, we are really, we are really good, right, um, we're great at what we do when it comes to being in the spotlight as an organization, and it can be really when you it's like, you know, you step behind closed doors and you can feel the tension.

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And we've been there, we've been there, and so it's interesting you said that.

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I think I just I never really thought about it that way until you said it Like I feel, like my fears lie there, like I'm like it scares me, it's almost like I'd rather be doing public stuff because I feel better.

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Interesting.

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I think we can dive into all of this a little bit more.

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So I'm excited about this conversation.

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It's going to be good.

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So, if you followed us for the last few episodes, we have said and it is true that we are good with lists and so you got to know who you are.

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You know, you got to know who you are.

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You got to know who you are as a middle adult by this time.

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You should know who you are.

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You should know what works for you.

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Don't be over here trying to be out the box, trying to try something new.

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You know who you are and we, the middle adults, we're list people we're the BuzzFeed.

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Top 10 people.

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We're the BuzzFeed generation.

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We came up in that generation we created it, so we're going to use it to our advantage.

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So there is an article that has published this kind of top fears faced by new leaders and when I read them, like three of the five are, like I can feel, are very, very, have been very present One of those three is probably present right now and, uh, like I've seen it, I've seen how it has prevented me from leading in the past and somehow, how it's done what it's done now.

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So like this is to me it's spot on.

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So um, so all right, so let's just uh, let's just go through them and you know, so, queda, this is the first one Fear of not being good enough, which I think is like Child.

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So yeah, what do you feel about that?

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So?

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I'll kind of give a little anecdotal, relevant, hopefully relevant story.

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When I first started at the job that I'm at now, I was one of four of, like, the leadership team.

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It was four of us total.

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The other three leaders had been there like seven, eight, nine, 10 million years and so, you know, they were just really really established in their roles, had a real established identity on the team.

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Like you know, everybody all of the assistant directors and graduate students that work with us, everybody, all of the assistant directors and graduate students that work with us like they kind of knew who they were.

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And when I came in, I already came in kind of feeling like an underdog, you know, and I was very different from everybody else on the leadership team.

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You know, I was the only Black woman on the team.

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I was the only black person on the leadership team, and so I immediately was just trying so hard to feel like I was finding my place and able to really articulate who I was to this team and kind of where my value add was.

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And I was constantly the first year there.

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I was constantly battling with the thought of, do they really need me?

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Like you know, because these people have been here for 10 years and they really know what they're doing.

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You know they, they have the institutional knowledge, they have the rapport with the team members already.

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You know, like, am I somebody that can show up and add something different?

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And is what I'm adding really going to be seen as something that is valuable for the people that I'm working with?

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And it took me a while, it took.

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It took not them recognizing oh yeah, jaquita's great Because they already thought that really this was.

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These were my internal fears.

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Like when they hired me they had no fear at all that I wouldn't be able to come in and to add value to the team.

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But I came with that fear and I was working against my own fear, like kind of carrying it on my back, like got to prove I'm good enough, got to prove I'm valuable, got to prove that my insights are worthy enough.

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And it wasn't until I put the fear down that I was able to kind of really step into, really step into who I was and really become like the pillar of the organization that I needed to be to uphold my end.

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And I think that leadership's, you know I always teach.

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You know, in the way that my office is set up.

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We have an executive director and we have three directors underneath that executive director and then we have like a bunch of assistant directors.

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And I always teach my team that the executive director is our covering and each of us as directors we serve as a pillar that upholds the organization, and so each of the pillars brings something different.

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I had to be okay with being different and I had to be okay with really exerting that difference and standing in that, and even though my strengths were very different than other strengths on the team, I had to be okay with saying, yeah, but my strengths are still holding us up.

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Now, if I ever let my side down, if I'm not giving what I'm supposed to be giving and my side falls down, then that's on me.

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But if I am giving the best of who I am, then I'm doing what I'm supposed to do.

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But that fear does creep in like every once in a while, especially when the organization starts to go through changes.

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It's like here we go all over again.

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Am I good enough for this now, because this is a completely different organization, you know, and so.

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But that's definitely something that I feel like I've had to fight through and continue to consider.

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I'm always considering that.

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Yeah, so I, uh, so I, I'm a co-founder of the organization that I and she is but I am the second executive director, so I um, I have followed.

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I had to.

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I followed the founder right.

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Um and uh, even though we were partners, she was the founder and she was leading it and I didn't come on staff until later and I definitely a big reason that I did not want to take the role is because I didn't think I could do things the way she did them.

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There were just certain things that I just knew, like I don't have that, that's not me, and yet it's needed.

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Like I know this has to happen in order for the organization to be successful, but I'm not that person Like, and I don't know where that's going to come from, right, yeah, um, one of the things was like fundraising.

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Um, I, I was like yo, I don't think I could do this Like, not like, but to your point, not like she did it.

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Yeah, right, so I had to find the difference.

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I had to find where my strengths were and lean on those and not, you know, I think the comparison factor is a big, big, it's a big thing here.

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Like, we, part of why you don't, we don't feel good enough, is because we're looking at something else and comparing ourselves to it, as opposed to really leaning into who we are, who we believe we are, uh, who we're naturally and uniquely created to be, and so it took me a minute to figure that out.

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I don't, I don't think I live there today, but when I first, I certainly that out.

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I don't think I live there today, but when I first, I certainly.

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When I first got into the role, I was pretty terrified and I just I wasn't.

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I really didn't want any kind of responsibility around it at all.

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And then the other thing that I was really concerned about, honestly, was like she was just a lot of fun to be around, ruth Abigail, you're fun, but here's the thing, queda, I'm not.

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You're totally fun, and here's the thing I'm not.

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I'm not.

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Now I can have fun all day.

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I love it when Ruth Abigail puts on her.

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Let's have fun face.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I can have fun, but I can't bring it Right, I don't bring fun, I have fun.

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So right, I don't bring fun, I have fun.

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So I don't think I do, but maybe I'm.

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I don't believe I do, I think you're hard on yourself, but we'll talk about that.

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We'll have therapy later, we'll talk about that later.

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Yeah, I just, whether it's true or not, I don't feel like I do.

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And so I felt like man, like she's really good at having stuff in her house and like she's really good at throwing celebrations for different people.

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She's really good at, you know, the birthday parties and like you know yeah, you know stuff like that and incentives for the staff.

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And whenever we do something, it's always something it's like we're going to have fun and it's like my deal is like we're going to do it, like I don't, we're just going to do it, and if it's fun, great, but if it's not, we still did it.

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It's called the razzle dazzle.

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That's all you need I don't do razzle dazzle.

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It's not who I am.

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Now I can, I can.

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I can try to put a little sprinkle on there, you know that sprinkle.

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Didn't even look, that's what I got.

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I was really worried about that because that that was the culture of the organization and I was like I don't think I can maintain that and I had to, and I, and I haven't let me be clear Like I've.

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that's just not who I am.

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But there are things that there are other ways that I have found um to the other ways I've found to, I guess, engage people and engage the team.

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That, uh, have fun elements in it.

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Right, it may not be, it may not be a party, but it's witty banter that you know that's, you're great at that.

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You're great at that.

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I try, I do try.

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But yeah, I think that, that, like feeling like the following anybody, like following in the footsteps, which, which most of you, as young leaders, will do you will have to be in somebody else's shoes, you're going to have to replace them because they're no longer there and you're replacing them.

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And so it's like, yeah, what if I don't do it?

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What if I can't do it?

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What if I'm not good enough?

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And I think the other thing, one of the ways I think to dispel this fear, is to go ahead and tell the truth and say, no, I'm not good enough yet Yet, because you're not, because you're new, and it's like you don't even know what good looks like yet.

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Can I just say something Do not go on a job interview.

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Saying that I didn't say that.

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Do not go on a job interview.

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I didn't say that.

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Why are you the person for the job?

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Actually I'm not.

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No, but I can be.

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You think that's going to work in your head, but do not.

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Do not go on that job interview saying I'm not good enough yet.

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Let it be known.

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But if you give me a, chance.

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Let it be known.

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If you give me a chance, let it be known.

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I didn't say that.

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That ain't what I said I'm just clearing it up for whoever's listening.

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I was actually going to make a point that was slightly different.

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If you would allow me to jump in, thank you.

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I felt the release, I would say one of the things that really broke me out of the mindset of feeling like I wasn't good enough was when staff turnover started to happen in my office and I became responsible for hiring, and when it was my responsibility to refill these roles and I was thinking about, okay, well, who do I want to put in the spot?

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I wasn't thinking, oh, I need to replace the person.

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I was thinking I need to bring in someone who can carry the vision forward.

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And so when I look at a role, I no longer look at it as, oh my gosh, like they got to come in and perform at the level of whoever, whoever, whoever.

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I look at it as who is going to get me to the next level of vision for my organization, who, who, who, if I put them in the spot, can take it further than where it is right now, and I'm really intentional about that.

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Um, and I've had to do a lot of hiring, um, not because where I work at in the bombcom, but just because they're starter roles, right, they're right out of grad school roles and so they're going to come, they're going to stay two, three years and then they're going to go somewhere and be great After they've been.

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Fantastic for me, of course, because I give glowing recommendation letters and they know that in that role has ever done before or have taken it.

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You know like, you know, part of what I do for my job is programming.

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We do late night programming and my current assistant director of late night programs shout out, amir Moore.

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Right, he is absolutely fantastic and has taken late night programming to levels that nobody else I don't think anybody else could have done.

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It you know like, but he came in on the interview with ideas.

00:20:42.846 --> 00:20:55.574
He came in on the interview with saying this is in on the interview, saying this is who I am, I'm the man because I'm going to sit down and get it done and there's not going to be any question of my ability to really come in and flip this on top of his head.

00:20:55.574 --> 00:21:14.461
And then he come in and you know like we work through some things right, just as a team, right, just as a team.

00:21:14.461 --> 00:21:19.329
But he is absolutely like way surpassed my expectations for that role and has become like a real staple campus and community partner within that role.

00:21:19.329 --> 00:21:25.059
And so, you know, when I started seeing, when I started hiring superstars, that's when I started believing that I was a superstar.

00:21:27.339 --> 00:21:43.368
When I started believing that I was a superstar because if I, if I'm able to envision the role and the position and get the right person in it so that they can like, take it to the next level, then I no longer feel the pressure to live up to the expectations of whoever was in my role before me or whoever is uh, whoever else is in the center.

00:21:43.368 --> 00:21:53.328
I'm holding up my pillar, because looking at them succeed lets me know that, okay, their success is my success.

00:21:53.328 --> 00:22:05.547
When they win me, bragging about them is me saying, yeah, that's my team, yeah, those are the people under my pillar, those are the people that I'm upholding, those are the people like.

00:22:05.547 --> 00:22:13.164
And so it took away the pressure when I allowed them to be great and to go past the past.

00:22:13.226 --> 00:22:14.769
What was in that role before.

00:22:14.769 --> 00:22:29.340
It took away the pressure from me to feel like I had to become someone else in order to get them there, because the more I was myself and the more I poured myself into them, the more that they excel, and vice versa, you know.

00:22:29.340 --> 00:22:35.049
And so that really kind of took away the sting for me of am I good enough?

00:22:35.049 --> 00:22:44.869
It was well, if they're good enough, my only job is to make sure that I'm good enough for them, and not trying to be good enough for anybody else's imaginary expectations.

00:22:46.700 --> 00:22:51.553
Man, I feel like this is so interesting.

00:22:51.553 --> 00:22:58.073
This is so interesting because I'm sitting here and it's like I definitely didn't feel that way.

00:22:58.073 --> 00:23:22.316
I feel like when I, when I hired superstars, it for me, it, it more so, shed a light on how inept I was.

00:23:22.316 --> 00:23:22.936
Oh, my oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:23:22.936 --> 00:23:26.968
I don't know how to lead these people Like and um, these people.

00:23:26.988 --> 00:23:28.853
I was so inexperienced at the time.

00:23:28.853 --> 00:23:38.244
There were just things that I just didn't know, but I knew, I was like, I know they're going to kill it and they did.

00:23:38.244 --> 00:23:40.951
And I think that goes back to like, we killed it.

00:23:40.951 --> 00:24:05.673
Right, we were programmatically and publicly, we were great, but my inexperience and my fear, I think of of I just, I, just I let fear drive me in a lot of ways, and some of these other fears are I'll talk more about those things but like, like, my fears, um, definitely moved me in a direction that was not helpful as a leader.

00:24:05.673 --> 00:24:13.594
And it and so, and and uh, and, when you hire people who are very good at what they do, that doesn't work.

00:24:13.594 --> 00:24:22.583
If you, if you, if you don't have the confidence you need and you don't have the competence you need as a leader, um, that they won't, they won't.

00:24:22.583 --> 00:24:27.382
There are certain things that people just aren't going to stand for, right, they're not going to take.

00:24:27.382 --> 00:24:37.819
Um, some people are patient enough to uh to to, to wait it out, and some people are not, and I and I get that, and so I think that's just interesting.

00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:39.902
Like I didn't, I definitely felt a lot.

00:24:40.442 --> 00:24:44.464
There were just days I felt very small and I didn't know how to.

00:24:44.464 --> 00:25:16.587
My confidence was so low in those moments that the fact that I had people who had higher confidence levels in what they were doing than I did I won't even say competent, but confidence they had more confidence than I did it it made me shrink back, which, as a leader, doesn't work, because people are looking to you for direction and I couldn't give it to him because I didn't have the confidence needed, and so that was a real struggle.

00:25:16.587 --> 00:25:36.343
That was a real struggle for me, and I, you know, now I don't feel that now, but part of it and out, part of it is, and I'm going to, I'm going to go to the next one because I think and it says it actually is connected like this fear of failure, right, yeah, but I will say this, and I think that's a very common one that that that should come as no surprise, as the top fears.

00:25:36.343 --> 00:25:40.626
But if I had not failed in that, I wouldn't be here where I am now.

00:25:41.248 --> 00:25:42.469
Right Like.

00:25:42.709 --> 00:25:42.828
I.

00:25:42.828 --> 00:25:51.461
I needed that experience of low confidence as a leader, of not feeling like I was able to do certain things.

00:25:51.461 --> 00:25:53.226
I needed that.

00:25:53.226 --> 00:25:54.929
I needed to fail.

00:25:54.929 --> 00:26:07.413
I needed to feel that so that I would, so they would motivate me to move forward and not sit in that and not sit in this low confidence level.

00:26:07.413 --> 00:26:10.647
I needed that and I'm grateful for it now.

00:26:10.647 --> 00:26:16.486
At the time it was I mean, it was hell, it was horrible and I didn't know how to.

00:26:16.486 --> 00:26:18.832
I didn't see my way out of it.

00:26:18.832 --> 00:26:28.767
But when I came out I looked back and I said, man, there are some things, there are some lessons I've learned that I'll never repeat.

00:26:28.767 --> 00:26:29.589
Like.

00:26:29.589 --> 00:26:30.532
I'll never repeat it.

00:26:30.532 --> 00:26:35.064
And you know, case in point yesterday there was a situation.

00:26:36.567 --> 00:26:39.031
One of my issues is handling things quickly.

00:26:39.031 --> 00:26:43.443
I don't the idea I like to be prepared for confrontation.

00:26:43.443 --> 00:26:49.049
So sometimes the fear of just being unprepared for what's coming.

00:26:49.049 --> 00:26:51.532
I want to think through it, I want to wait.

00:26:51.532 --> 00:26:52.594
I want to wait till I'm ready.

00:26:52.594 --> 00:26:54.076
Well, you can't wait till you're ready.

00:26:54.076 --> 00:26:56.365
When people are frustrated, they're frustrated now.

00:26:56.365 --> 00:27:09.362
So, as a leader, my job is to serve them, not me, and in that moment in years prior I have served myself and it's part detriment to the team Just recently.

00:27:09.362 --> 00:27:11.766
I was like I ain't doing that again.

00:27:11.766 --> 00:27:18.003
I don't have all the clarity I want, I don't have all my questions answered.

00:27:18.003 --> 00:27:23.924
I'm not really prepared to handle the frustrations of my team right now, but I understand that they're frustrated.

00:27:23.924 --> 00:27:38.484
I need to handle it now and so, because I've seen what not doing that like I have failed in that area before and I need to handle it now and so, even though the fear of failure is very real, it's I think it's also, in a lot of ways, very necessary.

00:27:39.227 --> 00:27:47.073
Yeah, I think that something that might be important to kind of point out for our leaders is that Ruth Abigail is not in middle management.

00:27:47.073 --> 00:27:48.903
Ok, ruth Abigail.

00:27:48.903 --> 00:27:52.203
Ruth Abigail is top of the food chain, all right.

00:27:52.203 --> 00:27:55.696
Ruth Abigail is the head honcho.

00:27:55.696 --> 00:27:56.559
That is really good.

00:27:56.559 --> 00:27:59.009
Ok, she's the one in charge.

00:27:59.009 --> 00:27:59.801
That's right.

00:27:59.801 --> 00:28:01.907
I am middle management.

00:28:01.907 --> 00:28:03.271
That's funny.

00:28:03.271 --> 00:28:04.957
I am middle management.

00:28:04.957 --> 00:28:05.337
That's funny.

00:28:05.337 --> 00:28:24.414
You know middle management over here Because you know, as you were talking, I was thinking about how I think one of the things that has really benefited me as a leader on my team is that I have sometimes I can create and like so I tell people, my name actually means fortress, look it up, queda, it's a city.

00:28:24.434 --> 00:28:26.541
People, my name actually means fortress, look it up, queda, it's a city.

00:28:26.541 --> 00:28:27.928
In Pakistan, it means fortress.

00:28:27.928 --> 00:28:54.520
But and I tell people, like, when it's time, when we if there is any threat at all, we're hunkering down, I got y'all like, I think that what I have created on my team is just a high level of trust and a high level of like we're not going to allow outside things to defeat us, like we're going to be protected in our bubble.

00:28:54.520 --> 00:29:02.784
Also, you have a team that is focused on one common goal and everybody is kind of working towards the same goal.

00:29:02.784 --> 00:29:23.923
My team, while we have common like objectives, everybody's doing their own thing and we come together for the sake of involvement as a whole, but they all have different responsibilities within that and they collaborate, but they're not all working together on one thing all the time.

00:29:23.923 --> 00:29:48.723
And so I think that you know, with a shared goal, I think that you have a lot more interaction within your team and like they're all kind of working together a little bit more, whereas my team we work together but we're also like we got our own little projects, yeah, and so it's different atmospheres and there's different challenges in there.

00:29:48.723 --> 00:29:55.560
But I will say that the fear of failure is super real because there are expectations.

00:29:55.682 --> 00:30:05.473
For my department I am responsible for turning in our assessment data at the end of every quarter and there are like expectations.

00:30:05.473 --> 00:30:07.843
How many students came to these programs?

00:30:07.843 --> 00:30:10.951
What was their level of satisfaction with your programs?

00:30:10.951 --> 00:30:13.704
You know how many programs did you host?

00:30:13.704 --> 00:30:21.221
How many community partners did you utilize and how many campus partners did you utilize in your programming?

00:30:21.221 --> 00:30:24.824
You know how effective are you at what you're doing, utilizing your programming.

00:30:24.824 --> 00:30:25.864
You know how effective are you at what you're doing.

00:30:25.864 --> 00:30:31.488
And so every quarter we're like turning in data saying, yes, we're doing a good job, yes, we're doing a good job.

00:30:31.807 --> 00:30:35.611
And so, like, a lot of pressure comes out of the numbers.

00:30:35.611 --> 00:30:42.434
You know, like, a lot of times, you know, we kind of had the pandemic as an excuse for a little while.

00:30:42.434 --> 00:30:53.644
You know, the pandemic came in and we were like, oh well, you know the pandemic, you know those numbers don't number because you know, gosh, darn it, covid, you know, and we're still rebounding.

00:30:53.644 --> 00:31:09.240
You know, and I think you know, as a researcher I can still look and say, oh, there's still so many impacts from COVID, but after a while they don, while nobody cares.

00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:12.528
They're like we're not wearing masks anymore, we don't care nothing about none of that other stuff.

00:31:12.528 --> 00:31:29.866
Get these people to these programs because you have to prove that the budget that you have, that the resources you've been allocated, that you're making good use of that you, you have to be able to show like you gave us, you know, $20,000 to do X, y and Z.

00:31:29.866 --> 00:31:31.990
And here's the result of it.

00:31:31.990 --> 00:31:33.814
And so there was just a.

00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:48.299
When I moved from my former job, which was at a kind of mid-sized technical college, to my current job, which was, is like a kind of much larger four-year public institution.

00:31:48.299 --> 00:31:53.912
Right, that goes hard in the paint for culture, for student experience.

00:31:53.912 --> 00:32:02.544
For all of that I went from doing stuff on a very small scale, on a very small budget, to doing stuff that's like very, very public facing.

00:32:02.544 --> 00:32:10.711
That's very, very like you know, like the stuff we do impacts tens of thousands of people, like in one event sometimes.

00:32:10.711 --> 00:32:22.786
And so the fear of failure for me it was the public failure, which I think is why, like, I'm less worried about what we're doing privately, cause I feel like I have.

00:32:22.806 --> 00:32:37.230
I always feel like, okay, I can manage, I can rearrange, I can get everybody back on pace privately, but publicly if something happens, it's like all the big dogs again, I'm not at, I'm not on the top.

00:32:37.230 --> 00:32:57.011
So it's the people who are, who have the outside expectations that sometimes I'm not always aware of, those are the ones that I'm like afraid of them saying, well, jaquita, you dropped this ball, this ball and this ball, and it's your fault, because, as good as my team is, if something happens, I'm taking that off their back.

00:32:57.011 --> 00:33:04.865
You get what I'm saying, like, if something goes wrong at an event, like I'm stepping in front of them and I'm catching that.

00:33:04.865 --> 00:33:06.828
I'm not catching no bullets in real life.

00:33:06.828 --> 00:33:09.942
I just want to be clear, but I'm not going to let them fall without me.

00:33:09.942 --> 00:33:20.308
You know, like like cause again, fortress, I don't, you know, I'm here for you, like like I'm, I'm supporting you, whether we win or whether we lose, whether we're up or whether we're down.

00:33:20.689 --> 00:33:32.590
And so for me, that fear of public failure, because when I was at kind of the technical school and I was, you know, operating at a high capacity, everything I did, everybody loved.

00:33:32.590 --> 00:33:39.000
You know, I could have said guys, we're just going to build, we're going to take a deck of cards and build a house.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:43.007
Oh, my God, jaquita, you are girl, she's killing it, right.

00:33:43.007 --> 00:33:48.955
But when I come to this bigger institution, they're like all right, we're used to doing big scale stuff.

00:33:48.955 --> 00:33:57.775
And so I was really afraid that I wouldn't be able to perform at this level and really grateful because I had great supervisors.

00:33:57.775 --> 00:34:18.291
You know, it is not a testament of my leadership alone, of my leadership alone, like it is a testament that I had great leadership that was supportive and that was instructive and that was a developing leadership, you know, and there's different types of leadership and I think it's important for every young leader to spend some time.

00:34:18.813 --> 00:34:28.943
You can go to Google or you can look up some leadership theory, look up some leadership books and really identify what type of leader you are.

00:34:28.943 --> 00:34:37.291
Are you a transactional leader, where you know, like you know, what I give, I expect to receive in return, like I'm giving something, expecting something back?

00:34:37.291 --> 00:34:39.364
I'm a transformational leader, like.

00:34:39.364 --> 00:34:41.670
I've identified that as my leadership style.

00:34:41.670 --> 00:34:54.945
You know I am always focused on how can I make, bring out the the most potential out of the people and out of the uh, out of the subject matter that I'm leading, out of the programs that I'm leading?

00:34:54.945 --> 00:35:01.762
How do I get that person to their highest potential so that they can also have transformative effect?

00:35:01.762 --> 00:35:03.244
Are you a servant leader?

00:35:03.244 --> 00:35:13.465
Right, there's different types of leadership styles and you will feel less like you're about to fail if you know who you are, and I can't preach self-awareness enough.

00:35:13.465 --> 00:35:27.280
Spend some time getting to know your leadership style, because it will ultimately help you and to make you feel less like you're failing if you know what pillar you're called to uphold in an organization.

00:35:28.001 --> 00:36:06.030
Yeah, that's, I think that's, I think that's really good and I, yeah, I think that's good, I, I, I think that that that idea of knowing the pillar, knowing like there's so much power in knowing what you just said, right About, like you know how well can you identify your strengths in the way you would come at leadership and some of those are going to come with certain levels of fears that we're talking about and then you kind of know, you kind of have this okay, I know what.

00:36:06.030 --> 00:36:11.311
So, as a transformational leader, I think I would probably put myself in that category as well.

00:36:11.311 --> 00:36:19.193
There's a desire to have a measurable impact of change.

00:36:19.900 --> 00:36:20.260
Yes.

00:36:20.601 --> 00:36:28.005
And so you want to see change where I think that can.

00:36:28.005 --> 00:36:45.257
For me, where that can go off the rails is sometimes I want change so much, especially in people, that I can miss the uh, the way lack of change impacts the organization.

00:36:45.257 --> 00:36:48.318
So that's me Now.

00:36:48.318 --> 00:36:53.880
I don't, you know, I don't know if that's kind of what you were saying, but when I was hearing I was like I can, I, I am, I want to see.

00:36:53.940 --> 00:37:09.530
I was just telling some of my team the other day like I never thought I just it wasn't something I had a vision for myself for when I was in my early twenties, doing the work that you know, working with young people and doing all that, I never I didn't necessarily see myself where I am now.

00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:31.146
Like I didn't see myself leading a team of young black women that are doing the same thing, right, I, and I love it, I love doing that, like I love being able to pour into younger black female leaders that are pouring into young black girls, and for me it's like it's incredible and I want to see them.

00:37:31.586 --> 00:37:39.786
I want to, I want to give them what other people gave me right An opportunity to thrive and to grow and to go and do amazing things that maybe you didn't think you could do.

00:37:39.786 --> 00:37:40.952
That is amazing.

00:37:40.952 --> 00:38:01.960
That is top three priorities for me as a leader and as a as an organizational leader, as somebody who is at the top and I do have the responsibility of the organization, of of upholding the organization right and being the chief executive, if you will, of the organization.

00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:09.146
I also have to hold that, and sometimes those two, if we're not careful, like it can conflict.

00:38:09.146 --> 00:38:33.717
And so that fear can, sometimes fear can of not being able to, that fear of not being transformational like I want to do this, like this, is what is important to me and also I have to pay attention to this too, because if I don't, it's going to counteract each other.

00:38:33.858 --> 00:38:35.844
I mean, they're just going to cancel each other out.

00:38:35.844 --> 00:38:40.880
Um, so it's, it can be, it's a balance, and you have to know when to focus on what.

00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:41.822
And.

00:38:42.123 --> 00:39:00.070
And then for me, there's also fear of like failing in either one of those areas, right, failing in the organizational area, failing in the people area, and so I consistently kind of play those two out in my mind and I think it kind of goes to another one.

00:39:00.070 --> 00:39:08.248
I'm going to number four, because I feel like this is a segue into that, this fear of holding people accountable.

00:39:08.248 --> 00:39:16.009
That is my current issue, that is my current issue as a leader.

00:39:16.009 --> 00:39:25.869
And I will also say, like you know, certainly younger me there was no holding people accountable.

00:39:25.869 --> 00:40:03.565
I don't even know what that, I don't how, like how, how do I and I know that might sound crazy for some people, because some people have no issue holding people accountable and also, I understand that you have to hold people gently, like and quite frankly, especially in our climate today, just in work, in the work climate today, you can't just you can't just, you just can't, you can't just go off on folks, you can't just, you know, you have to hold people gently, um, for, for a lot of different reasons.

00:40:04.748 --> 00:40:12.686
And so holding people accountable and yet being holding folks gently and with care, uh, can be a challenge for me.

00:40:12.686 --> 00:40:15.512
Um, it's, you know, it can be a challenge.

00:40:15.512 --> 00:40:27.887
I lean towards care, uh, over accountability, uh, mostly because I, you know, I don't want to and and and and let me also say this because it seemed like I just made that.

00:40:27.887 --> 00:40:33.639
Um, you know, uh, that's a, that's actually not uh, two things can be true at the same time.

00:40:33.639 --> 00:40:39.972
I can care for someone and be and hold them accountable, but I think my, my issue is I don't know that, I fully believe that all the time.

00:40:39.972 --> 00:40:50.594
So I don't want, I don't want to sacrifice the way somebody thinks, that I feel about them for the accountability piece.

00:40:50.594 --> 00:40:52.967
That is a very selfish.

00:40:52.967 --> 00:40:58.773
It's a very selfish thing for me because I'm thinking about my feelings more than their growth.

00:40:59.539 --> 00:41:02.346
And so I noticed that, as a leader, that is such a struggle.

00:41:02.346 --> 00:41:22.793
I noticed that, as a as a leader, that is such a struggle and I would um to all of you, uh, young, younger leaders, who might have young leaders as your leaders, I would urge you to uh give them time to figure that out.

00:41:22.793 --> 00:41:28.782
That is if, if, if, you can right, Like and I've asked my team that, like y'all, I need time.

00:41:28.782 --> 00:42:08.050
I don't, I there's, there's some things I don't do well, and I see that this is a, that this is something I can't promise it's going to turn around overnight, but if you give me a little time, I will promise to work on it and um, and so I think that, as you know, as a leader, in this stage and at this like stage in my life season of my life age, I am like the maturity level I have, I I haven't lived like, I don't have the, I don't have the level of confidence I think I think in 10 years, holding people accountable won't be as difficult as it might be today, because I would have been practicing it a little bit more.

00:42:08.050 --> 00:42:17.028
Um, but you know it's it's not, as it's not very easy to do it and especially when you, we, I, I do, uh, want to be liked.

00:42:17.170 --> 00:42:18.132
You know I want to.

00:42:18.132 --> 00:42:20.541
I want people to like being working with me.

00:42:20.541 --> 00:42:25.989
I already said I'm not fun, so you gotta there has to be something about me that's, that's appealing, and so it's like.

00:42:25.989 --> 00:42:35.047
You know, maybe I could be kind and caring, and I don't want to cancel that out because of of I have to say something difficult to you because you're not doing what you're supposed to do.

00:42:35.047 --> 00:42:36.920
That's and that's.

00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:51.244
That is a true issue and for me, and like that's real, and I think, yeah, I'm gonna stop there, cause I feel like I'm I'm uh, uh, I feel like I'm being too vulnerable, but it's okay, I'm gonna do it.

00:42:53.550 --> 00:42:57.405
Oh man, you know, I think it's um, there's so much there.

00:42:57.907 --> 00:43:22.739
But I think, you know when, when I think about, like that fear of holding people accountable, like I think we were talking before the before we started taping about like, like I think we were talking before the before we started taping about like, I think my biggest fear as a leader is being a part of someone's trauma story, like, you know, as someone.

00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:27.623
You know, like, when they get to their next level, you know that they're one day sitting on a podcast saying I was actually mishandled, right, you know, like I was not.

00:43:27.623 --> 00:43:28.583
You know I wasn't fully developed.

00:43:28.583 --> 00:43:31.945
I wasn't fully, you know, given what I needed by this one leader.

00:43:31.945 --> 00:43:51.201
Because I look at past leaders and I say, man, I wish they had done that, I wish they had been this for a deficit where accountability is not at the top of the list, it is.

00:43:51.201 --> 00:43:53.326
I want you like, am I supportive enough?

00:43:53.326 --> 00:43:56.092
Like you know, do I give you enough wise counsel?

00:43:56.092 --> 00:44:06.065
You know, like, and so, like you start sometimes we start thinking through all of the things that we felt we didn't get and we start trying to lead out of those deficits and we start trying to lead out of those deficits.

00:44:06.085 --> 00:44:13.193
You know, I remember when I first got to the school I'm at now and my supervisor was like all right, we're going to schedule our weekly one on one.

00:44:13.193 --> 00:44:15.295
And I was like what is a one on one?

00:44:15.295 --> 00:44:23.139
I?

00:44:22.905 --> 00:44:23.983
had never had a one on one meeting with the supervisor, like not a scheduled weekly, every day.

00:44:23.983 --> 00:44:28.992
I remember when you told me that I was like that's crazy.

00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:33.130
I had never in my previous role not a one.

00:44:33.130 --> 00:44:40.806
I would just kind of sneak into the office one day and be like hey guys, y'all all right, because I'm all right, I might need some things.

00:44:40.806 --> 00:44:59.050
I don't know if nobody cared, I don't know if anybody's watching me, but when we scheduled those weekly one-on-ones and I was like wow, and like he would literally set everything to the side and just focus in on me for an hour and like it was what do you need?

00:44:59.050 --> 00:45:00.552
What are you thinking through right now?

00:45:00.552 --> 00:45:01.512
What do you want to do?

00:45:01.512 --> 00:45:03.153
How can I help you get there?

00:45:03.153 --> 00:45:06.697
And immediately that was the culture I started for my team.

00:45:06.697 --> 00:45:10.045
I was like team, we're going to do weekly one-on-ones.

00:45:10.045 --> 00:45:17.693
I thought, you know, I thought this was the most novel idea ever, you know, and not realizing, oh, this is what the rest of the world does.

00:45:17.820 --> 00:45:18.748
But you did weekly.

00:45:19.476 --> 00:45:19.980
You're doing a weekly.

00:45:19.980 --> 00:45:21.804
We do, and we still do weekly.

00:45:21.804 --> 00:45:30.565
Every week I have one-on-ones with each one of my team members and one-on-ones, and I have one-on-ones with my supervisor as well every week.

00:45:30.565 --> 00:45:34.072
But we're you know, our work is really fast paced.

00:45:34.072 --> 00:45:36.724
You really kind of need to stay on top of what's going on.

00:45:36.724 --> 00:45:43.065
But I just think about how there's so much opportunity in that one-on-one conversation.

00:45:43.065 --> 00:45:51.840
Like I'm always like okay, if I don't ask them about, like, how they're doing, they're going to be like, you know, she doesn't care about me, you know, if I don't ask them, you know.

00:45:52.161 --> 00:46:09.856
And so when it comes to like holding someone accountable, I did come up on a situation where I literally had to like really hold someone to the fire, like, and I never thought I'd be in that situation, um, but it came pretty quick.

00:46:09.856 --> 00:46:12.626
It was, hey, you know, and it was.

00:46:12.626 --> 00:46:19.164
It wasn't a very emotional time because I felt personally targeted, you know.

00:46:19.164 --> 00:46:27.250
And so like how are you, how do you be a good leader when you feel like someone is like putting your reputation on the line?

00:46:27.250 --> 00:46:36.012
Yeah, like you know, like they're going around saying whatever, whatever, and like you feel like like how do I be a good leader and not be defensive.

00:46:36.012 --> 00:46:38.601
You know and like, and so I had to.

00:46:38.601 --> 00:46:46.349
The only thing that helped was I had to center that person's experience as the priority and not my own.

00:46:46.369 --> 00:46:50.853
that person's experience as the priority and not my own, like I had to take myself in a corner and be like Jaquita.

00:46:51.894 --> 00:46:57.623
You are a great leader, you are supportive, you are this, this and that you know.

00:46:57.623 --> 00:47:10.045
But my philosophy was I hired this person, I'm going to stand beside them until I can't stand beside them no more, because their development is part of my job, because I decided to hire them.

00:47:10.045 --> 00:47:18.009
Then I'm going to take responsibility for getting them what they need so that they learn how to better orient themselves in this role.

00:47:18.009 --> 00:47:21.842
And it took a lot of accountability.

00:47:21.842 --> 00:47:23.106
And you know I'm not.

00:47:23.106 --> 00:47:24.871

Talks With Middle Adults: Overcoming Fear and Embracing Vulnerability in Leadership

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