Unlearning Marriage: Overcoming a Disapproving In-Law, The Challenge of Age Gaps, Starting A Family With No Place To Live, Being Forced Into Marriage By The Church, And Rebuilding Faith In God
Ever been in love and felt the world against your union? Join us as we sit down with the resilient couple, Darnell and Sundra Harris. For 24 years, they've navigated the high seas of disapproval, age gap, financial instability, and step-parenting, using faith as their compass and prayer as their anchor. Their compelling story not only puts a spotlight on the reality of marriage but also shares insights on how to overcome common hurdles.
Darnell and Sundra open up about the early days of their marriage and the struggles they faced due to their age difference and scarce resources. Unwavering in his commitment, Darnell had to prove his devotion to both God and Sundra amidst her family's rejection. The couple narrates their experience dealing with blended families, emphasizing how love and discipline can bridge the gap and form strong bonds.
Their story paints a vivid picture of commitment and resilience, offering listeners a wealth of wisdom. Whether you're married, engaged, or simply interested in understanding the complexities of a committed relationship, this heartfelt conversation is sure to enrich your perspective.
Hello everybody and welcome once again to the Unlearned Podcast. I'm your host with Abigail aka RA, and this is the podcast that is dedicated to helping you gain the curse to change your mind so that you can experience more freedom. And so we are in our Unlearning Marriage series, and I got two dope people here with me, darnell and Sundra Harris. What's up?
Speaker 2:What's going on?
Speaker 1:What's up, man? I'm so honored Y'all. This is their first podcast and they chose to be over here on the Unlearned Podcast and I'm honored that they're able, that they've chosen to do it. Welcome to the Unlearned Podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm just glad that I just found out that I'm dope.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow.
Speaker 3:That is amazing.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm taking that with me. You mean, nobody's ever told you you're dope before.
Speaker 1:Nobody's told me that. Wow, this is a lot of first for you. See you there. That's great. Okay, cool. So we've gone through music for a little bit, we've done a couple of things together and you are the music minister at.
Speaker 2:Fellowship Memphis.
Speaker 1:Fellowship, memphis, and incredible talent and very gifted.
Speaker 2:You're gracious man of.
Speaker 1:God Okay. And so Sundra and I we've met here and there, but we just interacted at she was getting her son was getting his hair cut at the same place I get my nails done and we were having a conversation, I think, and she was spitting some. She was just spitting some knowledge and some game and just the way she was doing it and I literally was like do you want to?
Speaker 3:be on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yes, yeah, and she said first, she was like but she said yes, and so they're here, so y'all. So tell me how long y'all been married 24 years.
Speaker 2:What she said 24 years. One and four.
Speaker 1:Come on, okay, so 24 years, so tell me, so 24 years. I have been married for about eight days.
Speaker 3:So far Wow Bless you child, yes, amen.
Speaker 2:So that's Somebody put whole days, eight whole days, on the end of that. It makes it seem a little longer.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you, thank you. Eight whole days. So what was eight days in like for y'all, if you can remember?
Speaker 2:Do you? Want to Do you remember, okay? So when we got married, I was broke. Let's start there.
Speaker 1:Okay, I love it Okay.
Speaker 2:And there was a plan for us to move in with her twin sister and my brother-in-law and her dad a few days after we got married, convinced them that that was a horrible idea. And so we were actually. Our honeymoon was actually a church trip because we didn't have enough money to go anywhere else. So we were in Atlanta on this church trip when we found out that we didn't have any place to live, and so On the church trip, on the church trip, so she yeah, her sister called and was like well, I don't think, you know, I know I told y'all, y'all can move in, but I don't think that's a good idea. And it was really her dad just kind of influencing that. And so I remember being in the shower and just praying like God, what are we going to stay? And so we get back and we move in with her brother and we stayed there one night and the next night he went to work. Next morning he went to work and he came back and said I'm moving to Dallas, y'all can help the condo and all the furniture and everything. I'm just taking my TV and I'm out, and so we ended up with our own condo, fully furnished everything. Wow, just you know, that's how God has always kind of worked with us.
Speaker 1:So okay. So, Sandra, how did? Because how did? It was your family that y'all supposed to move into, and with, how did y'all handle that? I mean, you newly married, you got the in-laws, and that'll kick you out, so why did you?
Speaker 3:Oh God, it was a mess Because I was like I just cannot believe this, but it was more of a struggle. Thing is because they didn't want me to marry Daniel Daniel by me being eight years older, it was a thing with that. So it was like don't marry that boy. You know, he was like, so it was more of an issue with that. So my dad was not going to bag up because I don't want y'all to do it, no way. So, yeah, so it was a struggle.
Speaker 2:It was but the interesting thing is, a year before we got married, her dad called me out and prayed for me and he said for five minutes he said go hug your mom. And for five minutes he said you're going to be married within a year. And everybody is going to say that it's not of God, but you have to know that it's the Lord.
Speaker 1:Your dad told you that.
Speaker 2:A year before.
Speaker 1:A year before. At the time, we all no, no, not at all. So he would have had no idea that it was you no idea Right.
Speaker 3:And if he knew that he would have never prophesied. He never said it.
Speaker 2:And so her mom would say it, like when it happened. Her mom was like Her dad's name was Larry. Well, larry, you said last year you sang. And so, yeah, man, that was crazy.
Speaker 1:Okay, so my parents are eight years apart and so, and my mom is older, so like and I think she was 33 and he was 25. Like, what was the age that y'all got married?
Speaker 2:20.
Speaker 3:I was 28.
Speaker 2:And 20.
Speaker 3:And 20.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, all right. So what about a 20-year-old? What attracted you about a 20-year-old at 28? I could imagine marriage with somebody at 28.
Speaker 3:I think it was more of he didn't Dinell don't everybody goes to Dinell for everything. So Dinell it washe was not. He didn't give you a young man's personality. He gave youhe's the person that you would go to, you got issues, that's the person you talk to. So I was talking to him too, so you know, as a friend. So, yeah, so it was. I didn't see, I really didn't even be honest with you. I didn't find, I didn't realize his age. Yeah Huh, I didn't even realize my last name was going to be Harris until we got married, july the 16th.
Speaker 2:Because her sister married a Harris.
Speaker 3:My sister married a Harris.
Speaker 2:And they're twins.
Speaker 3:We're twins. No, so when theylet me tell you, when I realized I was going to be a Harris, when hiswhen the birthdays of the month, the church called after birthdays they said Chandra Harris and Sandra Harris's birthday and I was like, oh shoot, I'm a Harris. Oh why? I didn't realize that we wereit was a slow moment, but yeah, I didn't realize that we was both going to be Harris, and I was like oh, we're both Harris's, we didn't realize and there's no key and no way. You from Thailand, my sister's husband from Thailand, had to miss Sippy and Darnell from Chicago.
Speaker 2:So yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:That's great, that's both Maritah Harris. That is crazy. Okay, so all right. So you start off on a church trip not knowing where you're going to live. How did that make you feel in the moment? Like were you nervous, were you upset?
Speaker 3:Like, what I didn't? Because I was kind of in love so I was my mind was not even thinking about it. I said, wherever he go, I'm going.
Speaker 2:So it really didn't matter.
Speaker 3:You know we'll find somewhere that is going to happen. Might get down going and my dad ain't going to let me stay on the street, so he's going to have to figure out something, yeah yeah, that's for sure. Okay, so we knew thatit was my thing, was always into my dad. My dad was a pastor, so whatever weI was a good dad's girl, so whatever I needed, dad took care of it. So I knew, no matter how he's felt he was going to take care of it, right, okay, yeah, you knew that, I knew that so you weren't worried.
Speaker 1:So I really wouldn't worry, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's a good segue, because I was so young. So my mom and my stepdad, they went to dinner with her dad and mom. They just kind of talking about us getting together. And so my stepdad said do you know who is about to be in your family?
Speaker 3:And he was like oh well, he ain't finna be God's love. Now.
Speaker 2:Because he was used to, just plainly speaking, weak men that he could still control as beingthat's my daughter, and so a lot of people looking at me as 20 years old was like, oh, he's a little kid, but yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so he ran into someone that I took this responsibility on and it's my responsibility now, and so there was always a fight between me and him that I found out later, before he passed away, that he said, man, it just felt like you took her away from me. And I said, wasn't that what I was supposed to do? And so he was just used to. He was very, very close to his girls and was just used to being the one that they went to. And so, sandra, the first fights that we would have would be her trusting me or her trusting who she has always trust all this time, which was her dad. And so becauseand her dad had all of these resources and I didn't, but I had prayer, and so there would be times that weone time in particular, our lights was about to get cut off, and so she was like I'm just going to call my dad and get the money. I was like, no, I'm going to pray.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, that's just crap that was a problem.
Speaker 2:That's just crap. I'm used to calling them names Pray.
Speaker 3:Pray. You're going to be praying this was painful.
Speaker 2:What's prayer going?
Speaker 3:to do with our lights. What's prayer going?
Speaker 2:to do with our lights. You know what I mean. And so I prayed, man, god made the way where we got the money paid. And then another time, our washer and dryer broke down, probably like a month, and we were going to the laundromat like a month, a month. And so this particular day we got to cut off notice for our lights again. And so we're at the laundromat and we put the clothes in the dryer, we go to the grocery store. When we come back, the clothes that we put in the dryer, it lookedthe white clothes. It looked like somebody took a torch and burned holes, oh my gosh. And like all of the white clothes. And so, because we had been coming to this place for like a month, I developed a relationship with the owner. But there are signs all over the wall that says we're not responsible for any of your stuff. And so I'm just like man, when it rained, it pour God, because our lights about to get cut off, literally in the morning, and we had another one of those. You know, I'm going to call my dad. No, I'm going to pray and God's going to provide.
Speaker 3:That was the most crying thing for me, because that had money yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how did youhow did youhow didhow did you deal with the reality, the reality of your husband at the time saying no, we're going to pray, and feeling like I would probably feel like I don't havelike, I don't have any.
Speaker 3:We don't have to pray when daddy had the money Right, he's that, he's that.
Speaker 2:That's the answer we got, so when I'm calling him for a wife.
Speaker 3:That's the problem. That was very frustrating, yeah, because, daddy, I can go put stuff in the little way daddy got whatever I wanted, you got it, I got it, and then you talking about praying, I mean that's cool.
Speaker 1:Let's just get the money. Was it alike for you? Was it? Is that likewould you consider yourself to be a practical thinker? And you know, is it like? This just makes sense, and like what's thewhat's the rub? Was it a?
Speaker 2:So for me, I think it's upbringing. So her upbringing, she had this strong dad, entrepreneur, business owner, all this. My dad left when I was three and my stepdad, my mom, remarried. He was a truck driver, so he was never there. And so just this growing up with my grandparents and my mom and seeing faith and seeing them not have and seeing them ask God and seeing God provide for them, right, and so it was an example that was laid out before me, and so anytime that I didn't have something, I would pray and I would ask God hey, god, I need this. And so she was in a position where she didn't have to do that because she had a father that was providing. And so this is one of the things that I want to point out. Just for marriage, like when you're coming from two different backgrounds and those first years trying to navigate, you know how are we going to make a new life from the two, like the two shall become one, it says. But that doesn't happen just because you go to an altar and give vows. That is a lifelong journey of you know yielding and you know you laying down, I'm laying down, and we're bringing and building something together, and the fight is that both sides, if not careful, would try to force the other to be exactly what they saw instead of building something together. But with building you have to relinquish something, because everything can't be in this new space or this new life that we're trying to build. And so with us it was just two lives and two worlds colliding and trying to figure out how we're going to move forward. And so at that laundry mat, those clothes burnt, the guy came up. He said how much do you think all of this is? I'm just like man, I don't know. These like T-shirts and socks and underwear, like it can't be like 18 dollars, 20 dollars, I don't know. He wrote a check for the light bill and some. And so now we're in the car and it's like she's looking at me like wait, what Like?
Speaker 3:so this stuff that my daddy been preaching like all these years. You mean tell me it worked Like God. God do listen to you when you pray, wow.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, man and I can give example, example, example of that type of thing happening over and over and her easing into it, but still having and so that speaks to the husband or the wife, whoever it is in my seat as of being faithful to continue, even when it's not fully accepted at the front, because a lot of husbands want their wives to trust them, but I'm not gonna let somebody trust or trust somebody that drops me, like every time that I need you. And so if you're saying that God is this, you have to model it and the fruit of what you say has to come to pass. Like you just can't say something, that then the lights are off every time you go. What God you praying to? Is it like Jehovah or is it like Buddha? What are we doing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So where did you say your mom? And you saw your mom and your grandparents. You saw that. Was that something? How did that develop in you? How did that? How did that fade, especially when it comes to leading a family? How did you develop that? It's in a 20 years old you know what?
Speaker 2:I'm saying and so, like she was saying, I'm just a different person, a different guy. Like when I was 16, I moved to Memphis, I was in high school, I was fasting every day. I was back then. We had Sunday school lessons, so I would fast through school, come home, pray Sunday school lesson and I would only eat dinner and I was just. I had a hunger for God. That was just like. I just wanted God man. Like they would say to me at high school he don't want no girlfriend. That's what they would say to the whole way.
Speaker 3:He don't talk to him, he don't want no girlfriend.
Speaker 2:I would be in school like writing prayers, like I'd get done with my work and I'm writing prayers in my little notebook and just having a desire for God. Man, that's it. And I got married and I wasn't. There's so much about marriage that I didn't even consider. And so because there's so much about marriage, man and marriage is just all these different layers and layers of life, so I didn't really consider all that and there was some struggles and it was hard, but the foundation that we had with God was the thing that made the difference. Man, and I'll say to anybody, a lot of times we make a vow to a person before we make a vow to God. You know what I mean it's like. And you making a vow to God and keeping that. Then, once you link up with somebody else, yeah, it's going to be hard, yeah, it's going to be this, but if God gap both of y'all, then I mean he makes the difference.
Speaker 1:He makes the difference. So, sandra, we have the similar, similar as I'm a pastor, as a pastor's kid same great relationship with my father, and that mentality is so easy to lean into. There's nothing I can't, there's nothing that I would ask, and he wouldn't be like done?
Speaker 2:It's not, it's not even not even a question.
Speaker 1:How do you, how do you break that?
Speaker 3:How did you break that? It was broken through everything we went through. It developed, it created a trust. It developed a relationship with God that I never knew I needed. Even being a pastor's kid, being a PK, PK, Tell them, see to being a PK kid, you know you know, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we we we, we being the PK kid, you, pastor, preach, they say all that, but I didn't have to use that. Yes, exactly, I didn't have to use. No faith man, my dad had money, I didn't have to use that. I can just call dad and say, hey, this is what I want and dad made sure it happened. So, getting married to somebody and they saying, no, we're not going to do that, like church, this is, this is, this is us, church will be over. So every Sunday, my dad say we all going out to dinner, we all, I'm taking everybody out to dinner, my sister family, my family, we all going out to dinner. This this joke over here gonna say we're not going today. I was like this, this this joke over here, how are you going to say he paying for it? Bro, what is wrong with you? Did what is wrong with you. So that, and my dad's. A lot of times, a lot of times, my dad did it on purpose because he was trying to prove what he had. It was a purpose thing, you know. But he was. But I learned to. I learned something. That was what that was. It was impressive, it was more of a there was. I was impressed by that because I didn't know that, I didn't know I needed the importance of trusting God, because your dad preacher, whatever. That really don't. That don't relate.
Speaker 2:That don't relate to me and my life, because that is going to do it, cause he's your answer, he's my answer.
Speaker 3:So I believe God a lot of times. God remove you from that, because where he's taking you so you can trust him, you can develop that relationship that you're going to need. God, not for daddy Cause, daddy, like I said, my dad has been gone for 11, 12 years now. So if my dad was still here and my trust was in him like still like that I would be in bad shape, right right, right, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 3:I would have died within my spirit because I'm like turn what I'm gonna do, yeah, but God started developing that before he passed and if times before, way before, he started to give me time to get that together, right, right, right. So that's yeah.
Speaker 1:That's, and I don't you know, I think that women who have great relations with their fathers I would have met I don't know what it's for men that are marrying women like that, that kind of pressure or like, or pressure, or just the expectations that your wife has based on what it is that you know her father was able to do. Did you ever feel that at a level that was like, really, really difficult to bear?
Speaker 2:No, because Sandra was not and is not a person that. So if you look at her and like the stuff that she has, you would think, like from the outside that, oh man, like a lot of my preacher friends, be like man. You got to have a lot of money because your wife be dressing and this, that and other and she does dress nice and she does has nice things. But when we were going through, when I didn't have, she wasn't putting pressure on me for things Like these. These little things that was coming up was like light bills and like stuff that, like something that just happened right now that we just need. And I know I can call my dad, but it wasn't like man, I want a big house and man, I want this kind of car and how come you own up. It was not that type of pressure. So that is kudos to her for understanding who she married, understanding my financial level and then us working together to build to where we are today, and so all of that was also prayers that I had, like I didn't want. So I'm the guy at church that's singing, playing instruments, so you already know like I'm really. Yeah, you know I could really pick whatever you know what I'm saying. But my prayer was always I didn't want someone that wanted me because of what I had or what I could do.
Speaker 1:That was a prayer of mine.
Speaker 2:Like I wanted somebody that wanted me for me, like what she said earlier, like when you were asking about where we were going to stay, and she was like, well, whatever, it'll make no difference. Like that, that is that is what I prayed for, like I wanted, and then to be able to build something together. So it's not like, well, I got this. I want this man and he, I want him to make $90,000 a year and I want him to have a big house and three big cars. And some people say that and I'm not, I'm not against if that's what you want, your desire but my desire was to deal something with somebody because I feel like it's it's more meaningful when you can do it together and you can struggle together Right and and you know, and deal your faith and and you know, go to God together and get things together. Like her dad. Her dad would make statements like y'all ain't gonna never have no house unless.
Speaker 3:I buy y'all one. Wow, he ain't gonna be able to do this.
Speaker 2:He ain't gonna be able to do that, and so I took it as a challenge. First of all, okay, you know what I mean? I ain't gonna be able to do that. Watch this. So at 22 years old, bought our first house, bought my first house, so it's like and he and didn't let him know anything. He was into interior decorating and all that Did let him know anything to the day before the closing. And so he came and was like I'm gonna fix the whole house up, Go ahead Like you want to do that, That'll work.
Speaker 1:Knock yourself out.
Speaker 2:And he did and her dream car bought that like all these different things was able to do but wasn't able to do at first. But it was built up to that and so that speaks to like when you, when you're meeting somebody or you're looking for someone, a lot of times people look at the outer material job, and I'm not saying those things are not important, but you have to be able to see beyond that yes, sometimes and see what type of person that's right Are you connecting to. That's right Because you got people that may not the material things may have not have manifested now in, in in yet in their life. But if you just stick with them, you just stick with them, man.
Speaker 1:What do you think is is the because? I you know there are a lot of people that would advise men not to get married until they're financially stable.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Right, I'm one of them. You're one of them, yes, but you weren't. No.
Speaker 1:Well, why, why, why, why would you why?
Speaker 2:would you let somebody else do it? So, like I told you a few, a few minutes ago, there's so many layers to marriage, like being 24 years in now and like all the things that we had to go through. Some things, um, you put yourself in when you really don't have to. You can wait, you can do this, you can do that. There's so many things that I feel like I should have done prior to, but I mean, this is the decision that you made and one of the things about being a man and a woman, a mature man and a woman you just you deal with the decision that you made and you start from where you are, so yeah. So me talking to somebody else, I would be like, well, no, because now I have wisdom on this side that I didn't have. Then See my whole thing and I think this was something that you sent us my whole thing about this pressure of marriage in church. If we're just being honest, there's two things. I'll just speak for me. I don't wanna speak for the whole church. Jesus. Hallelujah For me there's two things that was pressing me to get married. It was companionship and it was sex. Yeah, those two things. And it's like maybe a few years before we were going on these, the same church trip, and so everybody booed up, yeah, and then you just like man, this sucks, you know what I mean. And so the prayer then begins God just want a wife, god, I want a wife, I want a wife, I want a wife, I want a wife. And then, once you get it, then you like man, yeah, and my grandma told me this. She said remember, son, whoever you choose, you're gonna have to eventually get up out the bed and live with your choice. You gotta live with your choice. And so you can't just build a whole relationship based on this one thing, or two, or three things, when there's all these layers, so it's the layers that I would advise. Now, like man, when you count up the cost, the Bible says like it's this it's that she had two kids when we got married.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh pause, I didn't know that that changes this whole game. So, when y'all got married, were the two kids? Were they with y'all? Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't just y'all, it wasn't just her that needed a place to stay, it was us and two kids. How were the kids? Two and four, two and four. So okay, all right, y'all see, y'all just do a wrench. How was it Four and six?
Speaker 2:Four and six, four and six. I didn't want to correct you on the back there.
Speaker 1:Oh God, four and six. Four and six. Okay. So you trusted him enough with two kids to take care of y'all, even though he had no money. No, yeah, no.
Speaker 3:Well, it was and that's not still with the trust pop, all right.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I'm very protective mama, all right.
Speaker 1:So that was another thing we had to struggle with.
Speaker 3:Let's talk. I want to hear about it. Don't be fooled on my kids, my kids, when I tell you, don't fool my kids. If they get it, if they do something wrong, you let me deal with that. That is not your place to deal with them. So we had a struggle with that for a while, because me, you know, they go with their dad every so often. But the dad really went there like that. But far as me and my kids, they're your kids, they're my kids. Yeah, we be stepdad. Don't listen, step in your boundaries. You know you stepped in. So that was honesty. So that was a struggle for me, because it was like they hit my son, my kids do something. He'd be like OK, hey, y'all need to stop Listen.
Speaker 1:Now shut your mouth, you don't tell them. You don't tell them, you listen. So how long did it take before you open that up to him?
Speaker 2:How long did we? We still take it.
Speaker 3:We still take it, my oldest son is 30 now and my daughter is 27. Man, so it took time. It took a minute Because we I had all that was included in the trust. Yeah, I trust that he loved God, his relationship with God and that trust with that develop, a trust where he's going to take care of they're going to be good, he's not going to hurt them or he's not going to do anything to them. Because, like I said, trust is one thing that's all in one, whether it's with your kids or marriage or whatever. So once that trust with that part, then I was cool with it. But we still had our issues with it, because I'm slighted now when he's with the 14-year-old. Our word is listen. He all right. Now you just talk to him and I'm just, you know, or I say, listen, don't do that because you're going to get in trouble. So listen, be quiet, because you know I can't take if you're getting in trouble. So these conversations. I ain't changed with that part. I'm just saying you know you don't want to see him. You know emotional I'm that. Mama Listen, don't please just come on. Just come on in him, baby. He's sorry. He's saying he didn't mean it, he didn't say it, he didn't say that. You heard it wrong. Nope Me too.
Speaker 2:Listen, I was going to say for the people that may have questions about that, it's something I want to share. I think we were talking about this Sunday and like when you have step kids, I think that a lot of people would say, even in the marriage vows and all of that, I'm doing, love you just like I love your mama. They say all that stuff is and it makes for great marriage videos. I mean it just. I mean it's tears all in the room. It's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But what you have to understand is discipline comes natural to a step that, or a step parent to step kids, and love has to be built.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And for your biological kids, love comes natural and discipline has to be built. That's what I learned. What I learned was, when you have your own child, there's things that you'll let your own child get away with Wow, that you won't let this step child get away with Wow, because that's your own child. So you have to build with your own child discipline, like I just can't let them get away with everything, I got to get on them. And with that step child, you can't just get on them for every little thing. You have to show them love and it has to be built so you can love a step child just like you love a biological child. But you have to work on it.
Speaker 1:So let me tell you why this I'm leaning in and we could talk about this for the rest of the time because I married a man with an eight-year-old, so I have a step child now, and that is powerful. And my question is when did that become apparent? Did that become apparent when you had your own child, Like when you realized? Could you tell a difference immediately?
Speaker 2:I could tell a difference immediately, and let me tell you the whole journey. So there were kids before I got married. There were what we would call bad kids, like at the church with parents, and then you would see these bad kids and then you would say, well, why don't they just whoop them or why don't they just get, like all these things? So those are the thoughts that I got in my mind. And you have these parents that say, just wait till you have yours, and I'm like, oh no, when I have mine it's going to be yada-da, that's what you say. And then I get married and she has two kids, and so they do something or this, that and the other. And I just start because I had a step dad. And so I'm seeing these patterns of even with my grandfather and some of my cousins, Because my grandfather that I call granddad wasn't my real granddad, he was my step granddad. So you see the pattern, and so then I would see him treat me differently than he treated my cousin, and then he would give me $5 to give my cousin a quarter, and this is like what, and we did the same thing, and it's like what's going on. So I got all of that history with it. So then when I got in that situation I could sense or know immediately when I'm doing that thing that I saw. And so I had to practice the love side, like when I want to always correct. I had to practice it and the way God was gracious with us, we didn't have DJ until like nine or 10 years later. So I had 10 years of practice with my step kids to build this relationship with them, so by the time he came. So then when he did come, then it's like man, it's so plain.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Oh man, it's so plain, like this stuff right here. If Joy would have did that, I'd probably knocked him out the chair. But then DJ doing this, he all right.
Speaker 1:How did you, as the parent that came in with kids, how did you respond to the way he reacted to you, the way that he was with the kid that you all had?
Speaker 3:I saw it and I was like it was frustrating. It's because I was like, ok, listen, why don't you get on him? Yeah, you was hard on him. You know stuff that he wouldn't be able to do like my oldest son wanted his hair to grow because he wanted like these dreads. But soon as DJ started was able to get hair he was trying to develop.
Speaker 2:Wait if we gon' tell the stories we gotta tell the truth Jor looked like a sign.
Speaker 3:Okay, see, now, see, look see, I tell him.
Speaker 2:So, patrick, if Patrick Harrington was here, his barber, when Jor finally said because I didn't tell him he couldn't grow it he was growing it and it looked really bad. And so when he got to the barber shop and Jor finally said, one day I'm gonna cut my hair off, patrick, said thank God. So, yeah, think of another example, because that wasn't a good one. Like we gon' give you a second chance. Oh God he ain't staying home. He was looking like a Chinese African moose grass.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, he's so wrong for that.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, he's so wrong for that it didn't look bad.
Speaker 2:It looked bad it looked bad. But that, what she just did, was the thing that I'm explaining. It's the thing where, because that's my child. So, I'm gon' take up for him, even though I know it. Yeah, but it was different.
Speaker 3:It was different, it was hard because I wanted I think I wanted the same treatment to a certain degree, far as you know, with DJ. Dj is gifted in sports. My other son, he tried it, you know. So I think it had to be inferior because I didn't want my oldest to feel like he didn't came along and now he's doing stuff and he would bring up the statement. Now he's like well, I just realized y'all couldn't afford stuff with me and what y'all can with him. And it was a jealousy there. Sure, it was a beginning jealousy. It's because he's coming in and he's reaping where we are now. Yeah, when they was with the struggle, where we couldn't do. So that's the difference. So it makes it look like you know it was special. You know he understand now and something to see. He had to grow. He's older, now he can understand, but it wouldn't. It wasn't easy, it was, it was, yeah, it was challenging. So that was a hard, it was. It's a lot, that's a lot, that's hard, what, what?
Speaker 1:so the way that the church disciples married people, specifically married people with children. Talk about that because I heard a statistic married people with children before they get married. Let me be clear about that. So, like I've heard a statistic that recently and I don't remember the exact percentage, but the like there's most marriages now there's a in the next five years or so will be married, will marry, will be a house with stepchildren. That's going to be probably the majority of marriages here in the next five to 10 years. So, as far as the way that the church talks about those households and like, how do you help people in that, what are, what are some of the ways you think the church is doing that? Well, and then what do you and what ways? Is the church not equipped to even really have that conversation with people?
Speaker 2:I think that I would just lean toward the latter. I think that marriages as a whole, from my context of church I don't want to speak for all churches, it's not really, it's not really talked about a lot outside of you know, you don't want to be in sin like doing the nasty, and so just get married and like figure it out. That's still a common so, so so.
Speaker 1:I mean it's been so. I was talking to people not you know, a few days ago, with another recording, we were talking about the same thing and it's like this was the case when I was, you know, we were kids and it's still, would you say, it's still that prevalent.
Speaker 2:Like we're still there, because don't pull me in that room, because there's so much with Christianity about appearance than it is about reality, and so I would rather put a picture on Facebook to look happy than to take that energy to become like a good couple or have a good marriage. It's all about the perception of what you think I am, and so one of the things with me as I'm getting older, I'm losing the care for what you think and willing to be transparent and tell truth, because that's the only thing that's going to really change people's life. Man, it's like people need to hear the truth about these situations. In the church, I feel like they're campaign for people to get married and they don't want to put the truth as the slogans, because then it shies away, makes people shy away from getting married, and then now they're still in sin, and so I would rather them be married and not in sin and struggling and dealing with all this stuff and then end up divorced, than to just get it right from the beginning and tell them the truth. This is just because you went out there and got pregnant by this guy Does not mean that you supposed to marry this dude. That was a mistake that you made, let's move on. It doesn't necessarily mean, but what the church does is say, oh, you got to get together because I want the image, the image of Christianity and not the reality of this is not a dude that needs to be married to you. You ain't even ready for that. And so we compound with one mistake and compound another one and to be like, okay, we'll just get married. And then so marriage has become just a bandaid for Christianity, purity. It's like, okay, it's a bandaid, just put that on, just put a bandaid, just get married, just get married Just cover up everything, and what marriage does is magnify and expose who you and that individual really are. And so now you're in a household with this person and you were dating their representative, and now you see the real thing. You married to them for real and it's like man, and so now you're in it and then, even with the divorce and the stigma with that, you have people in very abusive relationships and they stay because I'm a Christian and I'm in church. And what is the church going to think? So that same church that pushed you to get married for all of these things it was trying to cover up will push you to stay married for all of these things that it's trying to cover up when it comes to divorce.
Speaker 1:Was there pressure for you to marry your children's father?
Speaker 3:at all. It was because my dad was a pastor. So it was like, well, you know what y'all you know messing around or whatever. So I think at that time I wasn't even safe, I wasn't even in church. I mean, I was going on Sunday because I had to, but I wouldn't, you know. But it was like, well, y'all need to do what you need to do. You know y'all sleeping together, so y'all need to go on and make it right. Make it, you know, do it right. So we did. I'm walking down a aisle, crying, booing and crying. People think I'm happy. Wow, and no, I wasn't happy, because the night before he was, I called over to the house and he was in the room with a woman. So I walked down and I, my dad's like, well, it's up to you, you know, you know, you do. You know we're going to just pray and everything was a prayer. We're going to pray, but when you're going through stuff, you don't want to pray? Yeah, you can. That's the least thing you want to do is pray. So everything was well. We go, whatever going on, just keep praying, you, you holding on and you keep being a woman that God you know get. You know, because when we got married I got saved. Then I got a hit church. So it was like this holding on to God, you do and you stand on, no matter what he's doing, you just keep praying for him. And I'm like dad, I don't want to be in this no more. I'm tired of this because he ain't doing right. He was. He's not doing right. Women come into the house knocking on the door and I'm still here and you know this, and you keep encouraging me to stay in this mess because I guess he didn't want people to see the church, the church, the church. So I was like so I'm like you know, I don't want to be in with him, no more. I mean I don't want to do this, I don't want to keep going through this. Well, just keep praying. Everything was praying, just praying. What you need to do is you got what are you doing? You're not praying enough. You got to turn, sometimes, turn your plate down and fast and pray to God, fixing worker and bring him in to God, and it's, you know, it's something that you're not. You know. So I was. Yeah, that's so.
Speaker 1:So what did that that's so interesting? So what did that do that? Here in that message, and then experience what you're experiencing. You're here and pray. You're experiencing this. You're clearly unhappy, not in a good situation. What did that do with your relationship with God?
Speaker 3:It was, it was a lot of. It was. I had issues, yeah, and a lot of people, a lot of Christians, don't want to say I have a. I had an issue. Come on With God. And I was like, okay, well, why am I in this and why are you not getting me out of this and why am I got the why, why me, why I got to keep going through this. What have I done in life that keep causing me to do it? So I was, I was hurt, I was such, I had a, I had a trust issue with God.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because he was always. I feel like, in all these relationships in my life, you, you was, where, were you at, you wouldn't? You wouldn't bagging me up, you didn't care nothing about me. So it was a trust issue with God. So when you keep getting something happening, the trust of that thing happens, even though you, we separate faith and trust and that's a whole. That's two different things. What's the?
Speaker 1:difference. Explain the difference.
Speaker 3:The faith. Faith is when you need something. God, I believe you know the trust. I didn't trust God because I didn't believe that with certain situations this situation, my life now, financially yeah, trust teach you to do that, wow, yeah. And they didn't teach you how to do life with that. They just say, well, you get married, you know, that's it. But they did not teach you how, when things are happening, how to navigate, how to really deal with that. They just said do it and you're going to be okay, just keep so that. That that caused the issue with me. With God, yes, right.
Speaker 1:So, and then when you get married to him, all he wanted to do was pray. Well, he won't do a prayer, and I'm saying that.
Speaker 2:So now you see the root of wow. I don't want to do that. I just go to my dad because her first husband was very mild, even though he was wild, he was very mild when it came to her dad. So anything that her dad wanted to do, he would just say yeah, yeah, okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3:My dad wanted to pay for some or do something.
Speaker 2:He let him do it. He just go ahead and do it and he had a good job. money like all of that and so her dad was looking as a good father, like, okay, this guy has money, this guy doesn't have money. So like, yeah, me, I also was trying to be logical, like why I didn't really just go in like I could have on her daddy, because I was. I was trying to put myself in his shoes and say, okay, if I had a daughter that was 28, married somebody 20 years old, like what would I think? And I would be, yeah, I'll probably be exactly like he is. But yeah you that those stories she told just kind of let you know, which speaks to this like you have to be healed.
Speaker 1:Yes. And then, before you get into another, relationship.
Speaker 2:Man and people just jump in from this to that and you bring all of that unnecessary. It's really unnecessary because marriage with two healed Christian people is going to be hard. That's right.
Speaker 1:By itself.
Speaker 2:So anything that you bring on is an extra baggage on top of all of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what? Tell me this With all of that and all that, all that you experience in your first marriage when you was pregnant, um, when is it time to call it quits? In a marriage, in a relationship, I walked out, you walked out. There it is, I got out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it was a. At that time, me and Dade were friends, so it was a thing where my vision saw differently, so I had a view. I don't write you. Okay, I didn't write you that, all right, but it wasn't a way of escape. I put it that way. I had been wanting out of it for a long time. My dad just keeps saying, just stay, just stay, just stay, it's gonna be okay, just pray, just stay, stay, stay, stay. Because he looked at what he had Right. Right, he made money. My ex-husband made money, yeah. So he was like, hey, just pray. He had a nice home, he had a hostess. I didn't care about none of that. And that's when people say I want a person who can do this financial, it means nothing when they ain't doing right. It means nothing when you I mean you can see stars. They go from American to American, because money, all that don't mean nothing when all this other stuff is going on. So it was just a. I went through that scenario. But no, I just that was just my way out. I just went left. I just said, okay, what you say, daddy, okay.
Speaker 1:How would you advise other people in situations where it's Is it that you say when doing right, when is it okay? When should people go? Is it just when they ain't doing right? Is it when they're not? When is it time to be done?
Speaker 2:I would say this is why it's so important if we're talking to Christians, it is so important for you to develop a relationship with the Lord prior to getting into a marriage, man, and that's so key. It's like people jump into relationships with other humans and I think my friend Ashley said you make this decision with no real understanding of the outcome. You jump into something and you don't know what that other person is going to do, and you make that decision apart from God, and so then you get in it and then you want to say God, come, do this, that and the other. So I would say to somebody that is wanting to be married, about to get married, make sure that you and God are straight. Now somebody that's in it. You got to go to God, man. You got to go to God. My auntie in Chicago, she married for over 30-something years. Her husband started. She'd known her and he started putting some type of poison in her food so she would eat and have leftovers have put in the refrigerator. He started putting stuff in her food and she started getting sick and so she was praying and she found a book of voodoo hexing book. So he got this book, man, and went and started learning how to do all these spells and putting this stuff in her food, and so she was about to leave. But she prayed and the Lord told her don't put any more food in the refrigerator. She didn't even know about that at the time. Just don't put any more food in the refrigerator. Anything that you eat, you don't want to throw it away. And so she had started looking crazy man like face, like she was dying, and he would come home every day as to find her, wanting to find her dead and just be surprised that she's still alive and moved his girlfriend, like maybe two blocks away, and was preparing to turn all of his financial stuff over to the girlfriend. And my auntie prayed and the Lord told her do not leave. I hold his heartbeat in my hand. So she stayed and about a month later he died in his sleep and she got everything. And so I said all that to say you can say okay, when is it time to leave, when is it time to go? You need to develop a relationship with God and be close enough to him to know these things and not just go off of your own human whatever. We are Christians, and it's too many Christians. Man operating in natural thought. You know just human wisdom. Well, you know one, this, that and the other. What you need to do is and we don't consult God. We don't consult God before, we don't consult God during, we don't consult God at the end. And so my advice is to consult with the Lord man. He's going to tell you, he's going to lead you, he's going to guide you. These are the things that we have been taught, these are the things that been preached to us, and it's time for us to stop sitting in church reading the Bible, toting it on our phone and don't believe any of it, like we don't even believe that God is can take care of us, that God can protect us, that God can lead us, that when God says no is for our good and he's not a mean God just trying to keep good things away from us, we have to trust the Lord. So I would say, yeah, you have to develop the relationship with the Lord.
Speaker 3:In my instance, I wasn't into God, so it wasn't praying to God. This joke. We have to go.
Speaker 1:But I see, I think, because I think the reality is people need to know that it's okay to go. You know what I mean and I think, because I would dare say that more people probably I'm making this very general statement, I could be wrong, but I would say more people would probably relate to your mentality at the time, right, your mentality at the time and say, and particularly if you're in the church and you feel this pressure and you got people around you telling to stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, and it's like yo, I gotta get out of here Like this, don't make any sense. You know what I mean. And so the freedom to do that, right. And then, but also you know to your point, darnell, as far as like, hey, if continue to pursue the relationship, because the thing that you might want to do, you may not need to do and it'll turn out in your face.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Like letting God do it. Like I remember, when David came home from battle, him and all of his men and all of their wives were stolen. And the Bible says that David inquired of the Lord what should I do? Should I pursue? The Lord said pursue Happened again. Something crazy happened. David inquired of the Lord again. He didn't say, oh, the last time I was in this situation he told me to go, so I'm going to do what he told me to do the last time. No, he inquired again. This time he said wait, don't go, wait, let them pass, come up behind them. So God always has strategy for whatever it is that you need to do, go stay, whatever. What I'm saying is, man, don't make these decisions before, during, after, without the Lord. Man, let him be the one that leads and guides you and grow up, because a lot of these folks are calling trauma and a bad marriage. You're just immature. Yeah, that's good You're just immature man and you don't want to grow up. And you got married out of lust and not out of love, because lust takes and loves, love gives. And so I remember seeing a box at Walmart. It was a 18-wheeler, not, I mean, a 10-speed bike. And so you see the box and you see the pictures, like, man, that's a beautiful box. But if you bring the box home, you open it up, you pour the pieces out. Those are the pieces to the picture. And so a lot of people see the picture and say, man, I want the picture, but these are the pieces. And so the pieces have to be put together to make the picture. And a lot of people, you know they want the picture but they don't want to put the pieces together. And then they start saying, well, does this go? It was in the box. And so then they put instructions in the box and say, okay, read these instructions, and this is going to tell you how to put these pieces together to make that picture. But then they don't read the instructions because they're going off of the picture I'm just going to go off of what I can see on the picture. So they start putting the bike together, right, and then, at the end of their assembly, there's 15 screws that they call extra. These are extra screws, see. And then you get on the bike and then you ride the bike. See, I'm riding the bike, everything's fine. See, those 15 extra screws was for longevity, not just for you to ride once or twice, it was for you to be able to ride for years. And when you don't have those 15 screws, things start falling apart in a shorter amount of time because you didn't use all the pieces and you didn't read the instructions. And so people want to get married off of your picture, my picture, that Facebook picture. Oh man, I want that. But they don't know that that's the alter. It's the beginning of the put putting together of the pieces. And you can marry the right person and it don't work because you don't put the pieces together, like people think. I'm, I just need to. I want to marry the person. They, god sin. You can marry the person that God sins and it doesn't work because you still got to work it Like, like that's a part of God and if God sent them, they're gonna sanctify you and and sanctification don't feel good. Yeah, all those things is in me, all those things is in her. We sanctify each other and so and what that means is God gives you somebody to pull that mess up out of you and that mess start coming up out of you and then you want to blame them. You just need somebody else know. What you need to do is grow up, man. Grow up and work on yourself and not try to make that person you and I think that was what your questions to like one of the struggles, like we was in a we call it an intense fellowship. Okay, um, the last couple of days, this over, this, work and do some stuff, and I want to say that because a lot of people think that 24 years, you just you good. Because the longer you're married, the more change you have to navigate. Yeah, like when you, when I was 20, I Ain't the same person at 30. Ain't the same person if I just had a birthday yesterday, on 44? Yeah, I'm not the same person, and so if you're not changing with the change and you're still thinking you with the 20 year old, we're not, we're not growing together. Oh, and people want to talk about infidelity and like all these different things and all that stuff is terrible. But on top of all of that, not growing together is it's bad. It's pretty bad too, right, because now you're growing, you're growing apart, yeah, and so you have to, you have to have hard conversations, you have to talk, talk through things and you have to understand that this person is not you, even after 24 years yeah. Sandra is an individual, I am an individual and we bring our individual selves together in matrimony. Not she don't complete me, I ain't.
Speaker 3:I have a she, I have right now we two holes that that come together.
Speaker 2:So if she, if she has a stance on something, that's fine. If I have a stance on something that's opposing, that's fine, because this is the way I am, this is the way she is, and then we bring Compromise or we agree to disagree and we move on. One of the things that um age Should do is cause you to be able to come in here and do a podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And not allow whatever disagreement or whatever. It was to stop life where you mad for six months right, yeah you know you ain't speaking for three weeks. Right Now you can just, you can just, you know, say what you got to say yeah, and then, yeah, go fix the dinner maturity. Yes maturity.
Speaker 1:I mean you know, like you, like you, you're growing. Like you say you're growing, I mean you're growing you, you are each individually growing together and as you grow together, you become more mature, like, and that that is, and I love what you said. Like you know, we and Trauma. Sometimes we call trauma trauma, but really what it is is immaturity. Yeah, we don't want to grow up, yep, and I think that's so powerful and I think that's that, you know, that rubs people because it's like no, no, you don't know what happened to me, you know what's going on, and you know I was one of my daddy's statement.
Speaker 3:My daddy should tell us when we got married marriage will show you how selfish you really are. Yep, because there's a woman. You know it's supposed to be. By my happiness, you supposed to make me happy.
Speaker 2:Come on.
Speaker 3:No, no, happy people, right, working together. Right, so, yeah, so, but as a woman, you watch TV, you watch the stories. Yeah, you watch all this TV and his TV gives you an image you know, yes, the bachelor and all these shows giving you this. Then this is what you supposed to be in this person. See that you know how they said they bringing them flowers. Look at all this is really cute, it's cute, that is really cute, that's really nice. But that's not reality of life, right, that? That's really cute for that moment. Right, because it's just they that's trying to impress you, trying to do what they need to do to get you yes. Then I bet, get you. I said I use a, I use this philosophy all the time. I say this all time. It's a commercial. I don't know people have seen this commercial. It was this guy sitting at this beach. On this beach and I'd use that every time I think of it. I see that it bit actually commercial and he was sitting on his beach and he but he's a big guy, but he had his stomach tucked in, but it was his table, like sitting right here, so it's pretty warm, and his baby was running back. So he was sitting up trying to impress her, but soon as she went back he'd let the thing in the whole table fail. So in that instance is just like what he said, you see, and you're trying to Put some and put this image of something that's really not you, just so I can get what I want.
Speaker 1:I could be here with y'all all night. Um, y'all, y'all have been such you've honestly been a blessing to me. What I want to do is the way we've been ending each one of these Conversations is doing like a quick lightning round for, um, you know, to just share with people a quick Unlearn this about marriage, right, so, like a, like a quick phrase or sentence, just say Unlearn blank, what would those things be, and y'all can just go back and forth or just as they come to your mind, unlearn this about marriage.
Speaker 2:Unlearn rose Not thinking, thinking that you have to do a certain thing because you are the man or the woman that's good.
Speaker 3:Learn. I Was say trust, mmm-hmm, I learned trust. Yeah, so the way we see trust with God and people is a the same thing. Oh. So I look at like this we Trust God, but we don't. We say we trust God we don't even know. Oh, you really don't, really don't right, but trusting people and Letting go of, like I said, everything I had went through in my life, letting that be a part cuz a lot of times sometimes you think within your life, all that is a closed chapter or this a closed thing with time has passed. You know Trust and you should be this certain way and some things. If life, if you keep going past with life and you never deal with a thing, it don't go anywhere. Yeah, it's still there because it's never been dealt with. I was thinking about that this morning. If you never deal with a thing, I'm getting that shower and it just came to my head and I'm saying, okay, god, okay, I get it, you never. You just keep going life, just keep going. Things keep happening. That it passed this, that all this stuff is happening your life and you, just you, you still waking up, going. Yeah, you never stop Deal with it. So it's just it just keep Going, yeah, just everything keep just happening. So it's just the point of learning that and the trust in people and trusting that everything is going to be okay. Yeah, that's that's the thing.
Speaker 2:That is a big thing with people, that's huge, yeah unlearn love, because sometimes people think love is lust and the difference is Just really simple lust takes and loves gives. So when you are in a relationship with someone, you should be in that relationship as a giver and Not primarily as a taker. And when you have two givers Everybody's satisfied. So unlearn love, like love is not. You know, I just love when he by or when she does or when he did. I just said anybody can love somebody, but what happens when you're in a marriage and that person ain't up for it? Can you still love when you don't get what you want?
Speaker 1:Yeah, unlearn love. That's good, that's good, that's good.
Speaker 3:One more unlearn, being Uncertain, being unselfish. Be unselfish yeah, that is a thing that is a lot of times you can be, from your experience or whatever. You get to be selfish and self-centered Because you, because you still got that walled over protection, hmm. So guess I do with this just to keep that. So you got looking out for Everybody outside of that box, because you mostly trying to protect Everything about you, right, right?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:So good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unlearn, yeah, unlearn selfishness. Yeah, that's good man, thank y'all. Thank y'all for being on the podcast. This is good. Thank you for sharing like, thank you for being honest and vulnerable and real. Um, this has really been good for me and I hope it's good for y'all. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 1:That's cool. Um, all right, so I don't I don't actually know how to end these. I have no ending. We just, I just do this, but we'll, um, we'll, uh, we'll, we'll see y'all next time. Um, let's keep unlearning together, and so we get as fierce more freedom.
Speaker 2:Peace out.
Speaker 1:Thank you once again for listening to the unlearned podcast. We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode. Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think. We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to Unlearn together to move forward towards freedom. See you then.
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